Re-Post of 5-18-2010 from correntewire:
It is not we who are the "media unpeople."
We get acknowledged and manipulated as the sheeple that we are by the media mouthpieces of the obscenely rich and black-hearted bastards of the universe. (Sorry, I stopped using nuance since Obama date-raped America and so many of his victims still refuse to admit it).
By their polls the media minions tell us what is convenient to the bastards of the universe for us to faux-think and faux-feel. In the reality shows we get to witness the forever race to lower the bar on American narcissism and exhibitionism, our titillating capacity for baseness continuously chronicled along with D-list and even higher celebs reassuring us they are every bit as dysfunctional and neurotic as we. Sitcoms celebrate cynicism over idealism, personality over character, cool over conscience, consumer, never citizen, identity. Dramas titillate with their jaw-dropping violence and authorized, cryptic, slow-pulsed, pragmatic, hero avengers who step over ravaged bodies out of respect for their own heretofore unbloodied footwear.
So there we are, supposedly. But just who might the “media unpeople” be?
John Pilger used the expression in a recent article entitled, “Welcome to the Violent World of Mr. Hopey Changey” whereby he calls out Obama and the oligarchical mafia that is behind him. Calls out the VIOLENT and psy-ops, is that the word for it, counter-revolution now going on to “unrevolutionize” the authentic spirit for authentic freedom that has swept through the Arab world.
Well, I mean if there is anyone who can lead in the destruction of idealism and with an amiable, how can you not trust-me smile, it is Barack “Hopey Changey” O-BOMB-a. Charles Ferguson on Tavis Smiley not long ago considered that Obama had wiped out idealism among the youth of America for at least one generation if not more. Obama is a world class champion. But not for peace. Quite the opposite.
John Pilger’s depiction of Obama:
And as “Mr. Hopey Changey” (the name that Ted Rall, the great American cartoonist, gives Barack Obama), is fawned upon by the British elite and launches another insufferable presidential campaign, the Anglo-American reign of terror proceeds in Afghanistan and elsewhere, with the murder of people by unmanned drones – a US/Israel innovation, embraced by Obama. For the record, on a scorecard of imposed misery, from secret trials and prisons and the hounding of whistleblowers and the criminalising of dissent to the incarceration and impoverishment of his own people, mostly black people, Obama is as bad as George W. Bush.
So what went wrong, you of the demon class, to make you need to seriously raise the violence ante under the charming Obama, not that the American faux-republic really notices? Loose cannon suicide bombers were quite useful to you, to be demonized and inspire Western culture xenophobia. Funny how no one in the Western media ever seriously explored why someone would destroy themselves so cavalierly. Something about virgins in heaven? That is as far as it went. Nothing about that question that what’s her name, the older reporter named Helen T., broached about why the US was hated by the citizens of other countries? What had we done to the poor masses of them, the ones without any government nuclear arsenals to keep us at bay, except robbed their country’s resources, destroyed the quality of their lives or actual lives as we rewarded and propped up sociopathic rat bastards willing to play puppets, “our bastards," for money, power and ego.
So again, what is the explanation of this apparent solidarity movement of the underclasses of the Middle East? Where do they get the energy and the hope? I mean the poor bastards are actually putting their lives on the line for communal freedom. For freedom for their children or their children’s children. WTF
? Of course, many of them want the freedom and rights they think that Americans now have. You know, the rights still remaining after GW, now circling the bowl thanks to our present, forward-looking constitutional educator President.
? Of course, many of them want the freedom and rights they think that Americans now have. You know, the rights still remaining after GW, now circling the bowl thanks to our present, forward-looking constitutional educator President.
This dangerous spirit for authentic freedom must be crushed, must be dispatched, and they, rabid rat bastards of the universe, with Obama’s soft-spoken but carry a big drone help, most of the world’s money sucked into their craven coffers, and a military sociopathic killing machine, are just the shock and awe-ers to do it. I forgot to mention the pimped out US Congress who betrayed betrayed betrayed their constituents despite their occasional kabuki demos of outrage and/or denial from either side of the aisle. Forever working and dancing hand in hand with the corporate media.
The media that leads us lemmings off one ever-lower amoral cliff and onto the next. The bastards of the universe give them easy talking points of disinformation. But really, it is more about the omission of news, of reality, that is key to their success in dismantling a country’s collective will and consciousness.
Mubarek’s elimination from power? Well, that was unfortunate for the bastards of the universe, a non-secret secret it was, but what the hey. Already the Egyptian street political groups according to Mr. Pilger are being shoved aside by the non-idealist pragmatists ready to be bribed and enabled by the hungry and greedy West’s rich rabid rat bastards
.
As for Libya, well, the highest jump of the hypocrisy shark is the “humanitarian intervention” there. Remember the “no fly zone” that sounded so safe and protective of the innocent Libyan civilians? Mr. Pilger:
.
As for Libya, well, the highest jump of the hypocrisy shark is the “humanitarian intervention” there. Remember the “no fly zone” that sounded so safe and protective of the innocent Libyan civilians? Mr. Pilger:
In Libya there is a tribal civil war; and the armed uprising against Gaddafi has long been appropriated by the Americans, French and British, their planes attacking residential Tripoli with uranium-tipped missiles and the submarine HMS Triumph firing Tomahawk missiles, a repeat of the “shock and awe” in Iraq that left thousands of civilians dead and maimed. As in Iraq, the victims, which include countless incinerated Libyan army conscripts, are media unpeople.
Uranium tipped missiles. The armaments that keep on giving. Now, there is a US non-news subject. As for thousands upon thousands of Iraq cilivians dead and maimed just from that war, or those two wars, I think we are getting dangerously closer to the identities of the “media unpeople.” I am tempted to mention Obama’s peace prize once again, but that irony is getting old. Its potential for arousing indignation getting stale. How debilitating is the emotional borderland where rage meets despair.
Pilger brings up more non-US media perspective in terms of Libya.
In the “rebel” east, the terrorising and killing of black African immigrants is not news. On 22 May, a rare piece in the Washington Post described the repression, lawlessness and death squads in the “liberated zones” just as visiting EU foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, declared she had found only “great aspirations” and “leadership qualities”. In demonstrating these qualities, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the “rebel leader” and Gaddafi’s justice minister until February, pledged, “Our friends … will have the best opportunity in future contracts with Libya.” The east holds most of Libya’s oil, the greatest reserves in Africa. In March the rebels, with expert foreign guidance, “transferred” to Benghazi the Libyan Central Bank, a wholly owned state institution. This is unprecedented. Meanwhile, the US and the EU “froze” almost US$100 billion in Libyan funds, “the largest sum ever blocked”, according to official statements. It is the biggest bank robbery in history.
The French elite are enthusiastic robbers and bombers. Nicholas Sarkozy’s imperial design is for a French-dominated Mediterranean Union (UM), which would allow France to “return” to its former colonies in North Africa and profit from privileged investment and cheap labour. Gaddafi described the Sarkozy plan as “an insult” that was “taking us for fools”. The Merkel government in Berlin agreed, fearing its old foe would diminish Germany in the EU, and abstained in the Security Council vote on Libya.
Like the attack on Yugoslavia and the charade of Milosevic’s trial, the International Criminal Court is being used by the US, France and Britain to prosecute Gaddafi while his repeated offers of a ceasefire are ignored. Gaddafi is a Bad Arab. David Cameron’s government and its verbose top general want to eliminate this Bad Arab, like the Obama administration killed a famously Bad Arab in Pakistan recently. The crown prince of Bahrain, on the other hand, is a Good Arab. On 19 May, he was warmly welcomed to Britain by Cameron with a photo-call on the steps of 10 Downing Street. In March, the same crown prince slaughtered unarmed protestors and allowed Saudi forces to crush his country’s democracy movement. The Obama administration has rewarded Saudi Arabia, one of the most repressive regimes on earth, with a $US60 billion arms deal, the biggest in US history. The Saudis have the most oil. They are the Best Arabs.?
The assault on Libya, a crime under the Nuremberg standard, is Britain’s 46th military “intervention” in the Middle East since 1945. Like its imperial partners, Britain’s goal is to control Africa’s oil. Cameron is not Anthony Eden, but almost. Same school. Same values. In the media-pack, the words colonialism and imperialism are no longer used, so that the cynical and the credulous can celebrate state violence in its more palatable form.
Yadda, yadda, yadda, Mr. Pilger. That analysis will never enter the US media echo-chambers. How dare you contradict the will of myopic TEAM AMERICA with the specifics of war and its violence and hypocritical and shameless double standards? What was that you were spewing, there at the end?
In the media-pack, the words colonialism and imperialism are no longer used, so that the cynical and the credulous can celebrate state violence in its more palatable form.
Yes, we exist in the age of amoral pragmatism led by the corporate friendly filtering media. Sprinkle in a few reassuring euphemisms to bury war, WARS, and no one pauses to seriously think or feel during their tv viewing.
Mr. Pilger’s final paragraph dares to reach out to another “media unpeople”:
The Palestinians understand all this. As their young people courageously face the violence of Israel’s blood-racism, carrying the keys of their grandparents’ stolen homes, they are not even included in Mr. Hopey Changey’s list of peoples in the Middle East whose liberation is long overdue. What the oppressed need, he said on 19 May, is a dose of “America’s interests [that] are essential to them”. He insults us all.
Only Obama, by the way, would have the gall to link “American interests” with self-congratulating US humanitarian support so smoothly and arrogantly.
As for Pilger’s mentioning the “Palestinians,” well, dare I quote that here, even within the progressive blogosphere? I mean there are “media unpeople” and then there are even more profoundly "media unpeople" whose present reality is such an inconvenience to mass pathological group-delusion and -rationalization and seemingly and inscrutably a powerful magnet for full out, gang-banger, evil, genocidal intention.
###
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The Obama haters of America have now gotten so bizarre and extreme, they are becoming a parody of what reasonable political discourse and reasonable opposition is all about.
Just as the Republicans with their extremism have made the Republican brand a laughing stock, so too are the “I hate Obama” people making a laughing stock of their brand.
For helping do that, Libby, allow me to congratulate you…and thank you. You are now being more help to the side I want to see succeed than you can imagine.
Just as the Republicans with their extremism have made the Republican brand a laughing stock, so too are the “I hate Obama” people making a laughing stock of their brand.
For helping do that, Libby, allow me to congratulate you…and thank you. You are now being more help to the side I want to see succeed than you can imagine.
That Obama now declares that he can assassinate me at his whim simply makes me giggle.
Frank:
Newsflash: all people can be bizarre and extreme. Or did you think just Republicans upset with Obama are bizarre and extreme? Did you happen to notice the bizarre and extreme behavior of the OWS crowd? Or perhaps you missed some of the extreme comments made about Bush? Would you like me to give you specific examples of Democrats making a laughing stock of their brand?
Don’t bother answering those questions, let’s move the debate forward and end the hypocrisy and name calling. Take me for example, I “hate Obama”. I would be more than happy to share my reasons or you can pick up the WSJ, flip to the opinion section and read. The only question that should be asked is whether or not you choose to listen or prefer labeling the other side as extremists.
Newsflash: all people can be bizarre and extreme. Or did you think just Republicans upset with Obama are bizarre and extreme? Did you happen to notice the bizarre and extreme behavior of the OWS crowd? Or perhaps you missed some of the extreme comments made about Bush? Would you like me to give you specific examples of Democrats making a laughing stock of their brand?
Don’t bother answering those questions, let’s move the debate forward and end the hypocrisy and name calling. Take me for example, I “hate Obama”. I would be more than happy to share my reasons or you can pick up the WSJ, flip to the opinion section and read. The only question that should be asked is whether or not you choose to listen or prefer labeling the other side as extremists.
Libby, if you didn't have people show up using reverse psychology to support the fact that you don't accept what you're told by the Mass Media and the Obama propaganda machine I might think you were losing your touch!
;-)
;-)
apisa has shown repeatedly that no-one has ever known so little about so much, nor so much about so little. Wear his scorn and disdain as a badge of merit. To call him an as*hole would be an unfair slur upon as
*holes.
-R-
*holes.
-R-
I hate that my country is murdering innocent people and betraying the young people who volunteered to serve and protect America by making them be those callous front-line murderers and deal with all the psychological and physical horror that that brings on.
I hate that the national media is so callous and amoral to treat this as normal and appropriate when it is horrifyingly evil and ever worsening. Might does not make right. It never will, no matter what collective mass ego-dysfunction a nation has. Rich and/or famous and/or powerful people are not to be blindly trusted just because they are rich or famous or powerful. We Americans desperately need functioning critical minds and open empathetic hearts.
I am called out for being bizarre and extreme? Demonize the messengers when the truth is so horrifying is apparently the best protection of one's own profound level of denial.
Clap your hands over your ears, squeeze your eyes nice and tight, jump up and down, and screech loudly, "la, la, la, la, la" and for heaven's sake DON'T EVER address the reality of the US Orwellian and fascistic programs of national and homeland security. Don't address what the messengers of reality are actually saying and pointing out. Use the smoke and mirrors M.O. that authoritarian leaders demonstrate so well and so often.
Go for the attack on the messengers of reality if they ever dare to assert their horror at the anti-humane rotting and destroying status quo. Don't ever actually address the ISSUES being asserted, God' no!!!!! Go for personalities. Accuse the messenger of being a meanie to the NICE personalities of those who are catalysts and enablers of catalysts for gratuitous death and destruction to foreign peoples or to people in the United States.
Defend them in the name of "lesser evilism" and evoke bogeymen and bogeywomen specters, people who would be far more toxic to the state of the country and the world. Don't address the reality of what is going on NOW, but why would you since those in the magic teebee box and the captured Congress and all the other pimped out so massively messengers of mendacity have lots of yummy toxic kool-aid to swill in exchange for mass authoritarian following.
Be a proud Obama supporter. Save our country from .... Save other countries from .... AN EVIL THAT COULD BE WORSE???? You know, the evil going on right now is nothing to sneeze at.
Kermit may like being Green, but Americans shouldn't like being incrementally and ultimately boiled frogs. It shrivels hearts and minds.
I guess I am still preaching to two choirs, the choir of conscience, and the other choir jumping up and down with their hands over their ears, eyes shut tight yelling out "la la la la la la!" so as to ensure no acknowledgement of reality penetrates their minds and hearts.
The side ostrich Americans want to succeed? Sadly that is so not the right side of history. Too much like the side the "good Germans" went with in the 1930s.
Jan and Zachd, thanks.
I hate that the national media is so callous and amoral to treat this as normal and appropriate when it is horrifyingly evil and ever worsening. Might does not make right. It never will, no matter what collective mass ego-dysfunction a nation has. Rich and/or famous and/or powerful people are not to be blindly trusted just because they are rich or famous or powerful. We Americans desperately need functioning critical minds and open empathetic hearts.
I am called out for being bizarre and extreme? Demonize the messengers when the truth is so horrifying is apparently the best protection of one's own profound level of denial.
Clap your hands over your ears, squeeze your eyes nice and tight, jump up and down, and screech loudly, "la, la, la, la, la" and for heaven's sake DON'T EVER address the reality of the US Orwellian and fascistic programs of national and homeland security. Don't address what the messengers of reality are actually saying and pointing out. Use the smoke and mirrors M.O. that authoritarian leaders demonstrate so well and so often.
Go for the attack on the messengers of reality if they ever dare to assert their horror at the anti-humane rotting and destroying status quo. Don't ever actually address the ISSUES being asserted, God' no!!!!! Go for personalities. Accuse the messenger of being a meanie to the NICE personalities of those who are catalysts and enablers of catalysts for gratuitous death and destruction to foreign peoples or to people in the United States.
Defend them in the name of "lesser evilism" and evoke bogeymen and bogeywomen specters, people who would be far more toxic to the state of the country and the world. Don't address the reality of what is going on NOW, but why would you since those in the magic teebee box and the captured Congress and all the other pimped out so massively messengers of mendacity have lots of yummy toxic kool-aid to swill in exchange for mass authoritarian following.
Be a proud Obama supporter. Save our country from .... Save other countries from .... AN EVIL THAT COULD BE WORSE???? You know, the evil going on right now is nothing to sneeze at.
Kermit may like being Green, but Americans shouldn't like being incrementally and ultimately boiled frogs. It shrivels hearts and minds.
I guess I am still preaching to two choirs, the choir of conscience, and the other choir jumping up and down with their hands over their ears, eyes shut tight yelling out "la la la la la la!" so as to ensure no acknowledgement of reality penetrates their minds and hearts.
The side ostrich Americans want to succeed? Sadly that is so not the right side of history. Too much like the side the "good Germans" went with in the 1930s.
Jan and Zachd, thanks.
Hey Mark. Didn't see you come in just now.
I relate so much to the story of the guy on the soapbox who stands on the street corner preaching and preaching and preaching every day for years and being ignored by the VAST majority streaming by and finally one guy witnessing this can't take it any more and stops to ask him why he keeps on futilely preaching his stuff despite the continuing indifference, and he says, "I started out wanting to change them. Now I do it so they won't change me." :)
I met Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party recently who is running for President. She dazzled me with her intelligence, her warmth, her spirit. She is the last person the corporate media would want to give any attention to, she is that good, that smart. She would clean any of the legacy parties clocks in a debate, even supposedly golden-tongued Obama. She would be a great catalyst for American and global recovery. Chomsky gave her a slogan, said she was for PEACE, PEOPLE AND PLANET. But Obama kool-aid is so plentiful, and makes people reject sanity and humanity.
I relate so much to the story of the guy on the soapbox who stands on the street corner preaching and preaching and preaching every day for years and being ignored by the VAST majority streaming by and finally one guy witnessing this can't take it any more and stops to ask him why he keeps on futilely preaching his stuff despite the continuing indifference, and he says, "I started out wanting to change them. Now I do it so they won't change me." :)
I met Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party recently who is running for President. She dazzled me with her intelligence, her warmth, her spirit. She is the last person the corporate media would want to give any attention to, she is that good, that smart. She would clean any of the legacy parties clocks in a debate, even supposedly golden-tongued Obama. She would be a great catalyst for American and global recovery. Chomsky gave her a slogan, said she was for PEACE, PEOPLE AND PLANET. But Obama kool-aid is so plentiful, and makes people reject sanity and humanity.
This from Paul Street I found posted on Black Agenda Report:
http://blackagendareport.com/content/barack-obama-fit-role-model-black-youth
"... Obama’s technical blackness has helped give his presidency fake-progressive clothing. It has helped lend false rebels’ disguise to his reactionary allegiance to reigning corporate and imperial elites, whose continuing dominance wreaks disproportionate harm on people of color. Obama’s race helps liberals and others think they are doing something progressive by supporting him even as his administration has: advanced the monumental bailout of hyper-opulent financial overlords; refused to cut down the parasitic financial institutions that crashed the economy; pushed through health reform bill that only the big insurance and drug companies could love; cut an auto bailout deal that rewarded capital flight and raided union pension funds; undermined desperately needed carbon emission reduction efforts at Copenhagen (2009) and Durban (2011); refused to advance serious public works programs (green or otherwise); green-lighted offshore drilling, domestic fracking, and numerous other environmentally disastrous practices; rolled over George W. Bush’s regressive tax cuts for the rich; frozen federal wages and salaries; cut a debt-ceiling deal (in the summer of 2011) that was all about cutting social programs instead of tax increases on the rich,); failed to embrace and defend the public worker uprising in Wisconsin; helped coordinate the armed force dismantlement of Occupy Wall Street encampments across the country; escalated Superpower violence in South Asia; passed record-setting “defense” (Empire) budgets; extended the U.S.- imperial terror war to Yemen and Somalia; “led from behind” NATO’s brutal regime change in Libya; disguised the escalated U.S. occupation of Haiti as humanitarian relief; expanded the U.S. Navy’s imperial presence in east Asia; aided and abetted a vicious right wing coup in Honduras; and expanded the Pentagon’s reach in Latin America."
http://blackagendareport.com/content/barack-obama-fit-role-model-black-youth
"... Obama’s technical blackness has helped give his presidency fake-progressive clothing. It has helped lend false rebels’ disguise to his reactionary allegiance to reigning corporate and imperial elites, whose continuing dominance wreaks disproportionate harm on people of color. Obama’s race helps liberals and others think they are doing something progressive by supporting him even as his administration has: advanced the monumental bailout of hyper-opulent financial overlords; refused to cut down the parasitic financial institutions that crashed the economy; pushed through health reform bill that only the big insurance and drug companies could love; cut an auto bailout deal that rewarded capital flight and raided union pension funds; undermined desperately needed carbon emission reduction efforts at Copenhagen (2009) and Durban (2011); refused to advance serious public works programs (green or otherwise); green-lighted offshore drilling, domestic fracking, and numerous other environmentally disastrous practices; rolled over George W. Bush’s regressive tax cuts for the rich; frozen federal wages and salaries; cut a debt-ceiling deal (in the summer of 2011) that was all about cutting social programs instead of tax increases on the rich,); failed to embrace and defend the public worker uprising in Wisconsin; helped coordinate the armed force dismantlement of Occupy Wall Street encampments across the country; escalated Superpower violence in South Asia; passed record-setting “defense” (Empire) budgets; extended the U.S.- imperial terror war to Yemen and Somalia; “led from behind” NATO’s brutal regime change in Libya; disguised the escalated U.S. occupation of Haiti as humanitarian relief; expanded the U.S. Navy’s imperial presence in east Asia; aided and abetted a vicious right wing coup in Honduras; and expanded the Pentagon’s reach in Latin America."
Clap your hands over your ears, squeeze your eyes nice and tight, jump up and down, and screech loudly, "la, la, la, la, la" and for heaven's sake DON'T EVER address the reality of the US Orwellian and fascistic programs of national and homeland security.
Ah, yes…the people who are addressing the fact that we have become a dictatorship…a fascist state…where freedom of expression is no longer allowed.
And you are addressing those problems and defects in screed after screed excoriating the national leadership and the state in general…and you know damn well you are not in any danger, because we are a free society functioning in a very complex world.
If you people ever really were in the kind of state you want to portray us as being…my guess is you wouldn’t say a word.
Hey, you have a right to say what you want…and since we are a free country, you can say it right here with no real fear of reprisals. I’m just joining in conversations with you because I know how much you want both sides of the issue to have its say.
Ah, yes…the people who are addressing the fact that we have become a dictatorship…a fascist state…where freedom of expression is no longer allowed.
And you are addressing those problems and defects in screed after screed excoriating the national leadership and the state in general…and you know damn well you are not in any danger, because we are a free society functioning in a very complex world.
If you people ever really were in the kind of state you want to portray us as being…my guess is you wouldn’t say a word.
Hey, you have a right to say what you want…and since we are a free country, you can say it right here with no real fear of reprisals. I’m just joining in conversations with you because I know how much you want both sides of the issue to have its say.
Many sides to issues would be nice, apisa, but monkeys that see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil contribute nothing to the discourse, which has been your primary role here for years (no offense to monkeys).
I joined Jill Stein's website and wish her luck, but after the canapes are passed and the speeches made, how will the Greens convince rational, ordinary joes and janes that they are not throwing away their votes again (a la Ralph Nader) and inviting 4 years of Romney or worse?
Thanks for finding the enter key libby, it's hard to read unbroken paragraphs. But why the "yadda, yadda, yadda" for John Pilger?
Mark, it's hard for me to see exactly what you contribute either.
Thanks for finding the enter key libby, it's hard to read unbroken paragraphs. But why the "yadda, yadda, yadda" for John Pilger?
Mark, it's hard for me to see exactly what you contribute either.
And I know that this opinion puts me squarely in the "lesserism" contingent along with Bill Maher, but I did the math and that's what I am until convinced otherwise.
Frank, believing what I do I do believe I may be in danger. That is a rather dirty and insulting accusation as I have said before. How long will the window of cyber free speech be open to us? Of course the more obtuse people are, the less of a danger and threat my truth-telling is apparently, so maybe I should thank you in a upside down way for giving deadweight protection to a CORRUPT LEGACY DEM PARTY!
I figure we better talk now as citizens where we can and big media won't let anyone with integrity in the door or forever hold our peace and those of us who do SPEAK OUT ARE taking a risk, no matter what the bubble people in Obamaworld say ... the fact that they use that as exhibit A (short term exhibit A) shows the horrifying thickness of denial, and if we are punished retro-actively and Obama is just the guy to do it, I am sure the "I told you so's" will come from them in their twisted loyalty. Obama doesn't even stand by his loyalists. Take a look at his history, Frank! Under the bus anyone and EVERYONE for his opportunism and/or oligarchic puppet-tude. Africa better watch out if he gets a second term. His being an African American will be a real Trojan Horse opportunity for oligarchs.
ordinaryjoe, we do what we think best. just don't congratulate yourself on the road less travelled that wasn't re Obama.
I think enabling Obama and the corrupt legacy Dem party is contributing to the profound deadweight of the problem in this country. I want to support the solution. Full-out. Stop playing political games cheerled on by a corrupting MSNBC faux-progressivism.
The "winning" obsession, don't support anyone who does not have the probability to win even if they stand for principles I believe in and BOTH LEGACY parties have proved sell out after sell out on every issue.
I won't trust she can win so I won't throw my weight behind Dr. Jill Stein say. (cool that you registered on her website!) Also because the corporate media won't even vet her because they are so pimped out to big money corporations, but it is kind of betting against your fellow citizens not to trust them to recognize the right side of history and not wanting to take a risk yourself (kind of like voting credit default swaps).
The other guy one thinks assuredly won't do the right side of history thing (too lazy, uninformed, distracted, fearful, "pragmatic" (that one always kills me)) but is opting for "lesser evilism" so why should I take the road less traveled by? Since everyone feels that "they won't win so why would I give up my vote" where is the chance to seriously have change? And hey, Laurence O'Donnell, wonderful Rachel, Morning Joe and what's her name, even Cenk (whom I like most of all of them) are backing Obama as lesser evil.
By the way, Zionism big money in Hollywood and tv land, why would the zillionaires involved with American media support someone who wasn't pro-corporate and not an Israel Firster. So won't see as many role models from Hollywood going the distance beyond lesser evilism, either.
Matt Damon better mind his ps and qs dontchaknow! Clooney trying to live it both ways? Bill Maher? Scanner cited George Carlin. Do you think Carlin would put up with lesser evilism bullshit?????? It is cool to admire Carlin, but how many are willing to walk his honest walk?
And McCain brought up the poor Afghan women again on Meet the Press. I mean "again" since we haven't heard much about them since the war was launched as a rationale. They worry about the women, the COSMETIC excuse for war over there as if they gave a rat's you know what about the safety of women ANYWHERE even here.
You know there is a new SCAM coming or the recycling of an old one when the patriarchs play the WE MUST HELP THE WOMEN card. Old Georgie Bush used Laura for that scam if you remember.
Tried to use the enter key more.
best, libby
I figure we better talk now as citizens where we can and big media won't let anyone with integrity in the door or forever hold our peace and those of us who do SPEAK OUT ARE taking a risk, no matter what the bubble people in Obamaworld say ... the fact that they use that as exhibit A (short term exhibit A) shows the horrifying thickness of denial, and if we are punished retro-actively and Obama is just the guy to do it, I am sure the "I told you so's" will come from them in their twisted loyalty. Obama doesn't even stand by his loyalists. Take a look at his history, Frank! Under the bus anyone and EVERYONE for his opportunism and/or oligarchic puppet-tude. Africa better watch out if he gets a second term. His being an African American will be a real Trojan Horse opportunity for oligarchs.
ordinaryjoe, we do what we think best. just don't congratulate yourself on the road less travelled that wasn't re Obama.
I think enabling Obama and the corrupt legacy Dem party is contributing to the profound deadweight of the problem in this country. I want to support the solution. Full-out. Stop playing political games cheerled on by a corrupting MSNBC faux-progressivism.
The "winning" obsession, don't support anyone who does not have the probability to win even if they stand for principles I believe in and BOTH LEGACY parties have proved sell out after sell out on every issue.
I won't trust she can win so I won't throw my weight behind Dr. Jill Stein say. (cool that you registered on her website!) Also because the corporate media won't even vet her because they are so pimped out to big money corporations, but it is kind of betting against your fellow citizens not to trust them to recognize the right side of history and not wanting to take a risk yourself (kind of like voting credit default swaps).
The other guy one thinks assuredly won't do the right side of history thing (too lazy, uninformed, distracted, fearful, "pragmatic" (that one always kills me)) but is opting for "lesser evilism" so why should I take the road less traveled by? Since everyone feels that "they won't win so why would I give up my vote" where is the chance to seriously have change? And hey, Laurence O'Donnell, wonderful Rachel, Morning Joe and what's her name, even Cenk (whom I like most of all of them) are backing Obama as lesser evil.
By the way, Zionism big money in Hollywood and tv land, why would the zillionaires involved with American media support someone who wasn't pro-corporate and not an Israel Firster. So won't see as many role models from Hollywood going the distance beyond lesser evilism, either.
Matt Damon better mind his ps and qs dontchaknow! Clooney trying to live it both ways? Bill Maher? Scanner cited George Carlin. Do you think Carlin would put up with lesser evilism bullshit?????? It is cool to admire Carlin, but how many are willing to walk his honest walk?
And McCain brought up the poor Afghan women again on Meet the Press. I mean "again" since we haven't heard much about them since the war was launched as a rationale. They worry about the women, the COSMETIC excuse for war over there as if they gave a rat's you know what about the safety of women ANYWHERE even here.
You know there is a new SCAM coming or the recycling of an old one when the patriarchs play the WE MUST HELP THE WOMEN card. Old Georgie Bush used Laura for that scam if you remember.
Tried to use the enter key more.
best, libby
Fundamental differences of opinion here, but I appreciate the civility. Afghanistan is an issue I have followed closely for 30 years, and I believe it is a place where no outsider learns a lesson until well bloodied, and where history does repeat itself. As I posted elsewhere, as far as the US and allies are concerned this is, sadly, going to boil down to a question of how many uneducated girls a soldier's life is worth. I wish it really were a scam, and maybe there are a few Taliban apologists who agree, but I am unconvinced.
Joe, be serious!
are you convinced our soldiers dying is for the welfare of women and families in our middle eastern victim countries?
wow. have you not read accounts from Iraq and Afghan women themselves who have given testimony to how bad things are as the US puppets and puppet warlords and yes Taliban make hell for them? Kill their children or them and don't even seriously get involved with their welfare. Oh maybe after 10 years the army gets smart and sets up a few women patrols to help them with health care. Pretty late in the game and it helps good Frontline show propaganda moments.
Karzai signed off long ago for one small example on a law that gives males the right to rape their wives if they don't get sex at least every 3 days. do you not remember that one? probably not a big media news story. Pulllleeeezzzz!!!
This awesome war correspondent Ann Jones has been trying to push for 50 percent of the Afghan peace table to be represented by women. You should google her. She rocks. yeah, I know not all women are for women's welfare, look at the trojan horse women of both legacy parties, but if you follow up on her takes, she is real and a real advocate for them!
please, joe, don't buy that story that our troops are dying for the welfare of our fellow GLOBAL men and WOMEN. Also, keep in mind that women who join the military are taking the risk of rape and sexual assault and violence from their fellow men in the over-adrenalin-testerone violent mode of military crazedness. I am not being hyperbolic. I think the statistics may be 1 in 3!!!
It is the scam about the "welfare of women", the "humanitarianism" bull shit that the shameless politicians and military use when they need an easy spin for the disinformed or uninformed American public or even to bullshit other countries. How many women have been killed by drones as collateral damage, then conveniently labelled "insurgents". Evil. We don't hear about women being rendered and tortured. You think that hasn't happened?
Look at the troops that faked an honor killing when they killed a family and dug out the bullets from two women, one was pregnant, and tried to frame the townspeople to escape detection. Do you think they have been prosecuted for that one without a double standard of protection?
I hope there is a women without borders mass movement. Humanists without borders.
A while back, I don't think it was on this site but maybe, I sent letters begging 4 first ladies I think to back Ann Jones push to have women at the Afghan peace table. I didn't hear from any of them. And I got not much interest from fellow bloggers. But the US has enormous clout with all the billions they have spent in Afghanistan. You don't think if they had prioritized giving women a voice, even a beginner's voice, in government they couldn't have made it happen or still could if our own military and boys club politicians didn't disrespect women so profoundly and don't give I repeat a rat's you know what about women?
Women before the Afghan war were committing suicide in droves when repression by the fundamentalists pushed professional woman into burquas and shoved them back into ancient patriarchal times super oppression. The wars were about oil and imperialism, not about women. Look at the big yawn re mass rape as a tool of war in the Sudan.
Do you think our destruction of secular govt and infrastructures of these countries is bringing democracy? It is letting the extremists take over and terrorize because it has weakened civil society and doomed it by destroying opportunities for education and welfare of children, of the future.
I saw a documentary on the Sudan and all the rapes there. 1000 a day one news story said. Can you even begin to imagine. and after a woman was raped she was vilified for having been raped and being dirty and her husband left her. Because she was the victim of rape. DEAR GOD.
Take care. appreciate you listening to me and my take. libby
are you convinced our soldiers dying is for the welfare of women and families in our middle eastern victim countries?
wow. have you not read accounts from Iraq and Afghan women themselves who have given testimony to how bad things are as the US puppets and puppet warlords and yes Taliban make hell for them? Kill their children or them and don't even seriously get involved with their welfare. Oh maybe after 10 years the army gets smart and sets up a few women patrols to help them with health care. Pretty late in the game and it helps good Frontline show propaganda moments.
Karzai signed off long ago for one small example on a law that gives males the right to rape their wives if they don't get sex at least every 3 days. do you not remember that one? probably not a big media news story. Pulllleeeezzzz!!!
This awesome war correspondent Ann Jones has been trying to push for 50 percent of the Afghan peace table to be represented by women. You should google her. She rocks. yeah, I know not all women are for women's welfare, look at the trojan horse women of both legacy parties, but if you follow up on her takes, she is real and a real advocate for them!
please, joe, don't buy that story that our troops are dying for the welfare of our fellow GLOBAL men and WOMEN. Also, keep in mind that women who join the military are taking the risk of rape and sexual assault and violence from their fellow men in the over-adrenalin-testerone violent mode of military crazedness. I am not being hyperbolic. I think the statistics may be 1 in 3!!!
It is the scam about the "welfare of women", the "humanitarianism" bull shit that the shameless politicians and military use when they need an easy spin for the disinformed or uninformed American public or even to bullshit other countries. How many women have been killed by drones as collateral damage, then conveniently labelled "insurgents". Evil. We don't hear about women being rendered and tortured. You think that hasn't happened?
Look at the troops that faked an honor killing when they killed a family and dug out the bullets from two women, one was pregnant, and tried to frame the townspeople to escape detection. Do you think they have been prosecuted for that one without a double standard of protection?
I hope there is a women without borders mass movement. Humanists without borders.
A while back, I don't think it was on this site but maybe, I sent letters begging 4 first ladies I think to back Ann Jones push to have women at the Afghan peace table. I didn't hear from any of them. And I got not much interest from fellow bloggers. But the US has enormous clout with all the billions they have spent in Afghanistan. You don't think if they had prioritized giving women a voice, even a beginner's voice, in government they couldn't have made it happen or still could if our own military and boys club politicians didn't disrespect women so profoundly and don't give I repeat a rat's you know what about women?
Women before the Afghan war were committing suicide in droves when repression by the fundamentalists pushed professional woman into burquas and shoved them back into ancient patriarchal times super oppression. The wars were about oil and imperialism, not about women. Look at the big yawn re mass rape as a tool of war in the Sudan.
Do you think our destruction of secular govt and infrastructures of these countries is bringing democracy? It is letting the extremists take over and terrorize because it has weakened civil society and doomed it by destroying opportunities for education and welfare of children, of the future.
I saw a documentary on the Sudan and all the rapes there. 1000 a day one news story said. Can you even begin to imagine. and after a woman was raped she was vilified for having been raped and being dirty and her husband left her. Because she was the victim of rape. DEAR GOD.
Take care. appreciate you listening to me and my take. libby
My mention of Bill Maher came from this blogpost, which mentioned him in the first annd last paragraphs but failed to explain why:
http://open.salon.com/blog/addisonpg/2012/03/19/rush_limbaugh_and_ideological_warfare_from_fox_news_and_right-wing_media
Easy enough to make a radiical hero out of George Carlin - he was the greatest after all; maybe only Robin Williams comes close. But it was just show biz in the end, wasn't it?
http://open.salon.com/blog/addisonpg/2012/03/19/rush_limbaugh_and_ideological_warfare_from_fox_news_and_right-wing_media
Easy enough to make a radiical hero out of George Carlin - he was the greatest after all; maybe only Robin Williams comes close. But it was just show biz in the end, wasn't it?
No, Libby, I DO NOT believe our soldiers are there to defend the rights of women, and I didn't say that either. I posed the counterfactual - what will happen when they are NOT there.
We got ourselves between a rock and a hard place, as have all would-be conquerors of Afghanistan. Literally -- read the history of the British retreat from Kabul in the First Anglo-Afghan War.
Joe can't be serious, after all, he says Carlin, may He r.i.p. was just show business.
No matter how hard joe tries, his destiny is to be no more, nor less than . . . . ordinary (which makes him but a tad less malevolent than apisa).
No matter how hard joe tries, his destiny is to be no more, nor less than . . . . ordinary (which makes him but a tad less malevolent than apisa).
Great post, Libby. The choice we are being given in the November election is between Hitler and Stalin, and it's nonsense to tell me I have to choose the lesser of two evils. Like Libby, I'm voting for the Green Party candidate Jill Stein. Obama is an international war criminal who has violated his oath of office by failing to uphold the Constitution (by revoking habeas corpus, freedom of speech and assembly, freedom from original search and seizure, among other breaches). What would it say about me as civilized human being if I voted for someone who clearly should be impeached?
Interesting how Pilger got himself uninvited to the so-called liberal Lannon Foundation for making a film critical of Obama called "The War You Don't See" - see http://stuartbramhall.aegauthorblogs.com/2011/09/26/banned-in-the-us-the-film-you-wont-see/
http://stuartbramhall.aegauthorblogs.com/2011/09/26/banned-in-the-us-the-film-you-wont-see/
Interesting how Pilger got himself uninvited to the so-called liberal Lannon Foundation for making a film critical of Obama called "The War You Don't See" - see http://stuartbramhall.aegauthorblogs.com/2011/09/26/banned-in-the-us-the-film-you-wont-see/
http://stuartbramhall.aegauthorblogs.com/2011/09/26/banned-in-the-us-the-film-you-wont-see/
Apisa would have a point if there were a lesser evil. The choice is between a batch of mindless maniacs and a current president who is methodically disassembling all basic civil rights and vigorously pursuing brutal military aggressions for economic conquest, who is openly rewarding the financial mafia that is scamming and destroying the economic systems of the world but incidentally financing his re-election. Is that a choice?
I'm currently reading "Tube of Plenty" - a history of television.It really brings focus and perspective to the way our government manipulates media, and vice versa. What is different today is that we have internet and cell phones and can communicate with each other.
It is both horrifying and reassuring to read the history of how history was made (up) by the "Right" in the '50's and '60's, and realize that we are seeing it again, only from the "Left".
Leads one to suspect that there just might possibly be such things ( surely they aren't "People"?) as a "Ruling Elite" that runs the whole "Big Time Wrestling" match and gets endless "chuckles" from watching the gullible rubes enthralled by the nonsense "morality play" that they feed to us constantly.
More and more I stand in awe of the absolute evil genius of the "Milo Minderbinders" of the world. And more and more I'd like to see them "Hanged". ( "Suspended"- for all you see something say something types out there working for Big Sis )
It is both horrifying and reassuring to read the history of how history was made (up) by the "Right" in the '50's and '60's, and realize that we are seeing it again, only from the "Left".
Leads one to suspect that there just might possibly be such things ( surely they aren't "People"?) as a "Ruling Elite" that runs the whole "Big Time Wrestling" match and gets endless "chuckles" from watching the gullible rubes enthralled by the nonsense "morality play" that they feed to us constantly.
More and more I stand in awe of the absolute evil genius of the "Milo Minderbinders" of the world. And more and more I'd like to see them "Hanged". ( "Suspended"- for all you see something say something types out there working for Big Sis )
Fascinating "discussion," this. Glad it's only a "discussion," tho, because metaphorically anyone from outside the whirling blades of the shibboleth mower who would dare get too near would risk losing a pinky, toe or worse to the main blade or its adjutants.
First, I'll say I admire Libby's bold intelligence and presentation. Where she falls short is in what Eugene Burdick called the "resolution phase," the prescription for action that a good motivator provides after what Mencken called "stirring up the savages." Can't vote for anybody who has even a remote chance of winning, which leaves one with only one of two choices: join the revolution and be vaporized or assume the pose of eloquently and loudly enraged victim. Actually there's a third choice, but it's not as colorful: drop out and subside. Just a Spanish Pipedream, of course, but John Prine makes it sound doable.
My hat's off here to Frank Apisa, who never shrinks from saying his piece, calmly and rationally, no matter how outgunned and outnumbered. Also to Ordinaryjoe, who keeps his cool while making his thoughtful and informed points.
Got a chuckle from the token Heller fan who says he wooden do it, but does it anyway. I've always liked a little humor with my lessons. Go, Heels.
First, I'll say I admire Libby's bold intelligence and presentation. Where she falls short is in what Eugene Burdick called the "resolution phase," the prescription for action that a good motivator provides after what Mencken called "stirring up the savages." Can't vote for anybody who has even a remote chance of winning, which leaves one with only one of two choices: join the revolution and be vaporized or assume the pose of eloquently and loudly enraged victim. Actually there's a third choice, but it's not as colorful: drop out and subside. Just a Spanish Pipedream, of course, but John Prine makes it sound doable.
My hat's off here to Frank Apisa, who never shrinks from saying his piece, calmly and rationally, no matter how outgunned and outnumbered. Also to Ordinaryjoe, who keeps his cool while making his thoughtful and informed points.
Got a chuckle from the token Heller fan who says he wooden do it, but does it anyway. I've always liked a little humor with my lessons. Go, Heels.
"We get acknowledged and manipulated as the sheeple that we are by the media mouthpieces of the obscenely rich and black-hearted bastards of the universe. (Sorry, I stopped using nuance since Obama date-raped America and so many of his victims still refuse to admit it)."
in word & in deed indeed~
saludos
in word & in deed indeed~
saludos
joe, "what will happen when they are not there"? i don't think you heard me about the massive extermination of middle easterners thanks to the US/Israel/NATOkilling machine. maybe the desperate country can begin to pull itself together, even though the jackal imperialist contractors will be sucking it dry. What will happen to the women when we are not there? They will be in the same desperate straits as they were when we were there if you had read what I was saying above. As for George Carlin, he didn't suffer fools. It was beyond show biz with him. Mort Sahl kind of lost his appeal when he became passionate about politics. Lennie Bruce and Carlin used their rage well, raised consciousness with their passion and integrity imho.
Thanks, Stuart. I am gonna post Jill Stein's fundraising website or people can google her. She is raising political money the honest way, NOT from corporations with their strings, ropes, cables attached. I did indeed appreciate your blogs about Pilger and the betrayal of so-called liberals, cowards, who cancelled his engagement.
jan, financial mafia says it all so well. i agree, the so-called "lesser evil" jumped the shark by a mile into massive evil.
I Wooden, that sounds like a book worth tracking down, tube of plenty. Occupy media is where we really need to go to stop the insanity. Milo of Catch-22 -- now there is a character who has multiplied in the amoral matrix of corporate overlording.
Thanks, Stuart. I am gonna post Jill Stein's fundraising website or people can google her. She is raising political money the honest way, NOT from corporations with their strings, ropes, cables attached. I did indeed appreciate your blogs about Pilger and the betrayal of so-called liberals, cowards, who cancelled his engagement.
jan, financial mafia says it all so well. i agree, the so-called "lesser evil" jumped the shark by a mile into massive evil.
I Wooden, that sounds like a book worth tracking down, tube of plenty. Occupy media is where we really need to go to stop the insanity. Milo of Catch-22 -- now there is a character who has multiplied in the amoral matrix of corporate overlording.
Matt, THANK GOD YOU HAVE JOINED US and can bring down the emotional temperature of this thread!!
Dear God! I mean, let's not discuss genocide and mass rape with inconvenient emotionalism. tch tch. You know, I think I may be the one in danger of losing a pinky with your facile commentary and interestingly honed "validation", my "friend".
Thank you for your comment. And reminding us how calm and "rational" Frank is. I don't often find him so, but you do. So be it.
Really, to be honest I didn't like your reference to stirring up the "savages" ... Savages? Me and the ones I am stirring up is it with my outrage and indignation? Now I would apply in context of what I have been writing about, the word "savagery" to the pols and the oligarchs and the military industrial security complex who have economically raped America and are violently decimating Middle Eastern countries, the first geographic list for the bloody US/Israel/NATO clipboard. But you see any readers I may have inspired with the reality I have discovered as "savages"????
Language is very useful, Matt, isn't it? You spin it well.
As for a resolution phase, I thought it was very clear. Don't reelect Obama, impeach him. Connect the dots! I mean, really rational people I would assume would and could. Rational people with empathy and conscience and willing to listen beyond the Big Media propaganda pouring out at all of us.
There is a viable candidate who has integrity from the Green Party, Jill Stein.
But that doesn't coincide with your ideology, sir, and that is fine. But drop the voice that you don't represent one and are the ultimate voice of reason come to call. I am sick of faux-reason and sell-out pragmatism in this ethical freakshow of America!
Okay, Kent Pitman was helping me rein in my lack of manners and I think they are slipping now. Sorry. But I just need to call out spin when it is used on me.
II, :) ... thanks! I felt that metaphor fit perfectly.
Dear God! I mean, let's not discuss genocide and mass rape with inconvenient emotionalism. tch tch. You know, I think I may be the one in danger of losing a pinky with your facile commentary and interestingly honed "validation", my "friend".
Thank you for your comment. And reminding us how calm and "rational" Frank is. I don't often find him so, but you do. So be it.
Really, to be honest I didn't like your reference to stirring up the "savages" ... Savages? Me and the ones I am stirring up is it with my outrage and indignation? Now I would apply in context of what I have been writing about, the word "savagery" to the pols and the oligarchs and the military industrial security complex who have economically raped America and are violently decimating Middle Eastern countries, the first geographic list for the bloody US/Israel/NATO clipboard. But you see any readers I may have inspired with the reality I have discovered as "savages"????
Language is very useful, Matt, isn't it? You spin it well.
As for a resolution phase, I thought it was very clear. Don't reelect Obama, impeach him. Connect the dots! I mean, really rational people I would assume would and could. Rational people with empathy and conscience and willing to listen beyond the Big Media propaganda pouring out at all of us.
There is a viable candidate who has integrity from the Green Party, Jill Stein.
But that doesn't coincide with your ideology, sir, and that is fine. But drop the voice that you don't represent one and are the ultimate voice of reason come to call. I am sick of faux-reason and sell-out pragmatism in this ethical freakshow of America!
Okay, Kent Pitman was helping me rein in my lack of manners and I think they are slipping now. Sorry. But I just need to call out spin when it is used on me.
II, :) ... thanks! I felt that metaphor fit perfectly.
"I don't think you heard me...." Really? I don't think you understood me either, because I have always said I want the military to vacate, leave, depart, disappear, vanish, pack up and leave Afghanistan. I'm just saying that it will come at a cost. And don't worry - the jackal imperialist contractors (what's a little more spin among friends?) will also be pushed out as soon as the Karzai government collapses, including most of the western-funded womens' NGOs that have actually done some good. You can't make an omelet, etc etc.
libby
I usually enjoy a game of "Error" Hockey with the logical masterminds who have figured out the trick, not of winning a debate, but of not losing , and waiting until you collapse from exhaustion.
As a programmer and systems analyst, I have often observed that the slightest analog input disrupts and destroys digital ( logical) games. It is what “I’ (Wooden Dodat) calls “Rat Hockey” as played among/with “Reasonable” ( susceptible to reason, either theirs or yours- if they won’t use theirs, they are subject to yours) people
The rough analogy is to choosing any input or output of your ( make that a friend’s ) computer and plugging in the output from a bass guitar plugged into a 150 watt amplifier. You don’t have to play the guitar very loud to fry the machine ( make that an ex friend) *
This was explored in the sixties by The Firesign Theater ( Why does the porridge bird lay it’s egg in the Error?) as well as Arlo Gutherie ( just waitin for it to come around again on the guitar) And those of us who are old enough have done this before. “I” is going to post a talk on the Creation of such “things” on his blog.
Hopefully soon
* Kids—DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME- if you do, please post the results on You Tube and email your old uncle Rudy with the Url- thanx
I usually enjoy a game of "Error" Hockey with the logical masterminds who have figured out the trick, not of winning a debate, but of not losing , and waiting until you collapse from exhaustion.
As a programmer and systems analyst, I have often observed that the slightest analog input disrupts and destroys digital ( logical) games. It is what “I’ (Wooden Dodat) calls “Rat Hockey” as played among/with “Reasonable” ( susceptible to reason, either theirs or yours- if they won’t use theirs, they are subject to yours) people
The rough analogy is to choosing any input or output of your ( make that a friend’s ) computer and plugging in the output from a bass guitar plugged into a 150 watt amplifier. You don’t have to play the guitar very loud to fry the machine ( make that an ex friend) *
This was explored in the sixties by The Firesign Theater ( Why does the porridge bird lay it’s egg in the Error?) as well as Arlo Gutherie ( just waitin for it to come around again on the guitar) And those of us who are old enough have done this before. “I” is going to post a talk on the Creation of such “things” on his blog.
Hopefully soon
* Kids—DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME- if you do, please post the results on You Tube and email your old uncle Rudy with the Url- thanx
Geez Libby. I read this twice and then read the comment lines.
I expect if it were not for the Internet I would know nothing all all.
I currently call the mainstream media names that I won't repeat here.
"American Interests"... What the Hell is that anymore?? My interests?? Yours??
Sorry for the sarcasm here, but I just spent long hours reading up on the latest drone war news, at least, all I could find to read.
Choosing between the monster/lackey in office and the next monster/lackey to take that place is no choice at all as far as I can see. And the choice between the Red team and the Blue team is nothing at all. The media is little more to me than cheerleaders at a high school football waiting for it to be over so they can go to the dance.
I'm still waiting for more fallout to hit the fan over the Murdock wacko's who openly, at least, spread propaganda and 'Let you decide'. Yeah, decide what...
Democracy is a dream long past in the past time.
Like America, the 'Beacon of light'...
Ask of the the survivors of the latest remote controlled assassinations what they think of the media circus. I expect they would give us a very different view.
If only they could.
Still like your views tho'. Sorry for the long winded rant.
I expect if it were not for the Internet I would know nothing all all.
I currently call the mainstream media names that I won't repeat here.
"American Interests"... What the Hell is that anymore?? My interests?? Yours??
Sorry for the sarcasm here, but I just spent long hours reading up on the latest drone war news, at least, all I could find to read.
Choosing between the monster/lackey in office and the next monster/lackey to take that place is no choice at all as far as I can see. And the choice between the Red team and the Blue team is nothing at all. The media is little more to me than cheerleaders at a high school football waiting for it to be over so they can go to the dance.
I'm still waiting for more fallout to hit the fan over the Murdock wacko's who openly, at least, spread propaganda and 'Let you decide'. Yeah, decide what...
Democracy is a dream long past in the past time.
Like America, the 'Beacon of light'...
Ask of the the survivors of the latest remote controlled assassinations what they think of the media circus. I expect they would give us a very different view.
If only they could.
Still like your views tho'. Sorry for the long winded rant.
Good thing I put the quote marks around "discussion," as I had a sneaking suspicion I had bumbled into a choir practice that would brook no dissonance. At least you had the grace to leave my comment stand. Too many soprano ensembles quickly delete any voice that doesn't fit in. I do take exception to your presumption that I have an ideology. My disillusionment with the prospects our species can survive if not prevail, as Faulkner promised in his Nobel acceptance address, might not be quite as evolved as Jan Sand's, but it's getting there.
joe -- when the US pols and military start talking about humanitarianism in order to keep the USWarmachine going, when they start talking humanitarianism to tug on the consciences of America to keep an insane war in place enough to protect mainly the exploiting western contractors, the reality of which is an even greater nightmare than it was originally, American consciences that should have been at the very least "buzzing" with cognitive dissonance since day one, and yet they (pols and military) still have the colossal nerve to want more funding, more American blood shed, more drones killing, more faux-war on faux-terrorists, they are exploiting humanity, us and the "others" they enflame the xenophobia about, for the corporate agendas over and over and over, it super pisses me off. (I wanted to put a paragraph mark in there and discovered it was all one sentence!)
They talk faux-humanitarianism when they want to enter wars pre-emptively and avariciously and obscenely codependently (with Israel) and they talk it when said wars have reached INSANE quagmire proportions and the country is broken and they (or others whom we have armed) have left it with a corrupt leadership that of course is not going to last five minutes without us (or our proxies) as we signal our departure which everyone knew was going to happen but we have established the worse possible scenario for the people there. We are destroying secular governments that even were trying to be more democratic and leaving civil strife often with the religious fundamentalist extremists with the greatest power and organization. We (our govt) don't like democracy anymore. There or here.
You know the quote about insanity is doing the same thing over and over... Our country when it admitted defeat in Vietnam showed some exhausted maturity to stop the insanity for a sec after millions dead... but it was short-lived. The war hawks and the Israel Firsters came back in a RAGE OF WILLFULNESS and they found the perfect front-man, the candidate whom Oprah endorsed and who promised over Hillary he would end the nightmare wars.
The difference between the Bush regime and the Obama regime Ted Rall asked? Opposition!!!! SHAME ON US!!!!
All that money for death and destruction. What if we had given running water and electricity and schools and hospitals in place of blasting away their civilizations? I don't know enough of the reality to know if the vultures and the jackals will remain and can remain there. The banksters are bringing down European countries, you don't think their tentacles and private armies they can afford will continue on in the trail of countries they have broken??? I guess we'll see but not from Big Media in America. They'll just tell us corporate fairy tales to keep on breaking us.
You know if the war money had not gone to the corporate wars, everyone on the planet could probably be a millionaire and living large and safely. At least everyone in the country could have been a billionaire (homeless included) but instead, like the bailout money, it went to fatten the wallets of the .001%. Pretty soon it will be all in the wallets of the .000%!
libby
They talk faux-humanitarianism when they want to enter wars pre-emptively and avariciously and obscenely codependently (with Israel) and they talk it when said wars have reached INSANE quagmire proportions and the country is broken and they (or others whom we have armed) have left it with a corrupt leadership that of course is not going to last five minutes without us (or our proxies) as we signal our departure which everyone knew was going to happen but we have established the worse possible scenario for the people there. We are destroying secular governments that even were trying to be more democratic and leaving civil strife often with the religious fundamentalist extremists with the greatest power and organization. We (our govt) don't like democracy anymore. There or here.
You know the quote about insanity is doing the same thing over and over... Our country when it admitted defeat in Vietnam showed some exhausted maturity to stop the insanity for a sec after millions dead... but it was short-lived. The war hawks and the Israel Firsters came back in a RAGE OF WILLFULNESS and they found the perfect front-man, the candidate whom Oprah endorsed and who promised over Hillary he would end the nightmare wars.
The difference between the Bush regime and the Obama regime Ted Rall asked? Opposition!!!! SHAME ON US!!!!
All that money for death and destruction. What if we had given running water and electricity and schools and hospitals in place of blasting away their civilizations? I don't know enough of the reality to know if the vultures and the jackals will remain and can remain there. The banksters are bringing down European countries, you don't think their tentacles and private armies they can afford will continue on in the trail of countries they have broken??? I guess we'll see but not from Big Media in America. They'll just tell us corporate fairy tales to keep on breaking us.
You know if the war money had not gone to the corporate wars, everyone on the planet could probably be a millionaire and living large and safely. At least everyone in the country could have been a billionaire (homeless included) but instead, like the bailout money, it went to fatten the wallets of the .001%. Pretty soon it will be all in the wallets of the .000%!
libby
Herr!!!! Another persona? I have got to learn more about rat hockey. I NEED to learn more about this rat hockey!! Now, you can't make the instructions too icy slick and droll for me for the beginning learning curve because I am at heart a (right-brained) "luddite"!! :)
Mission, God, I should give you an award for reading the entire thread through and not only once! I am grateful for fellow commenters and acknowledge that I am long-winded, not always the best listener, and willing to throw kitchen sinks in when I have a window of opportunity in pushing back at big-media surreality!!!
And I too need to keep finding alternate media since I am coming late in the game to exiting the exceptionalism bubble. like a smoker who gives up smoking and is extra-pushy to current smokers. My passion gets strident at times and I acknowledge off-putting. But as M Moore says (maybe it was he?) if you are not outraged you are not paying attention! I think the left could use some passion lessons from the Tea Partiers!!! Leave the rest of the corporate induced confused crap, but the passion and indignation!
The pimped out mainstream media are adrenalin junkies, ever willing to distract or stir up schadenfreude titillation rather than encourage critical intellectual and moral thinking. The election horserace in which none of us in the bottom 99% have a horse representing us in the race or have any stakes down whoever wins or loses is how they are trying to "infotain" us these days.
They are all scary. Legacy party candidates. And an honest and perfect candidate who Chomsky says represents PEACE, PEOPLE AND PLANET is treated like the Rumplestiltskin scenario, HER NAME MUST NEVER BE MENTIONED or POOOOOOOOOF goes the corporate lock on all of us.
Jill Stein, Jill Stein, Jill Stein!!!!
FIVE COMMUNICATIONS OVERLORDS RUN BIG MEDIA ON THE PLANET. You can bet they are itching to get their tentacles into alternate media. Yes, the Murdoch treachery!!! Only the tip of the iceberg, horrifying as it is.
We've got to cover the backs of the OWS movers and shakers or it will be the same kind of betrayal on our part of the troops who have suicided, homicided, been physically and/or psychologically maimed, full out exploited on torturous multiple deployments playing Russian roulette with their existence or the last remnantes of their sanity as we looked the other way and let our constitutional republic circle the bowl.
The Green party says voting Green is not an alternative, it is an imperative. I think they got that right. But how does a candidate who won't play the dirty game get into the game that is now so rigged it would be outrageously funny if it weren't so outrageously evil. I mean is there a darker word than evil I can use? It just doesn't seem enough any more. Rabid rat bastards is also losing its power for me. Not strong enough.
to be continued, and thanks for comment.
best, libby
And I too need to keep finding alternate media since I am coming late in the game to exiting the exceptionalism bubble. like a smoker who gives up smoking and is extra-pushy to current smokers. My passion gets strident at times and I acknowledge off-putting. But as M Moore says (maybe it was he?) if you are not outraged you are not paying attention! I think the left could use some passion lessons from the Tea Partiers!!! Leave the rest of the corporate induced confused crap, but the passion and indignation!
The pimped out mainstream media are adrenalin junkies, ever willing to distract or stir up schadenfreude titillation rather than encourage critical intellectual and moral thinking. The election horserace in which none of us in the bottom 99% have a horse representing us in the race or have any stakes down whoever wins or loses is how they are trying to "infotain" us these days.
They are all scary. Legacy party candidates. And an honest and perfect candidate who Chomsky says represents PEACE, PEOPLE AND PLANET is treated like the Rumplestiltskin scenario, HER NAME MUST NEVER BE MENTIONED or POOOOOOOOOF goes the corporate lock on all of us.
Jill Stein, Jill Stein, Jill Stein!!!!
FIVE COMMUNICATIONS OVERLORDS RUN BIG MEDIA ON THE PLANET. You can bet they are itching to get their tentacles into alternate media. Yes, the Murdoch treachery!!! Only the tip of the iceberg, horrifying as it is.
We've got to cover the backs of the OWS movers and shakers or it will be the same kind of betrayal on our part of the troops who have suicided, homicided, been physically and/or psychologically maimed, full out exploited on torturous multiple deployments playing Russian roulette with their existence or the last remnantes of their sanity as we looked the other way and let our constitutional republic circle the bowl.
The Green party says voting Green is not an alternative, it is an imperative. I think they got that right. But how does a candidate who won't play the dirty game get into the game that is now so rigged it would be outrageously funny if it weren't so outrageously evil. I mean is there a darker word than evil I can use? It just doesn't seem enough any more. Rabid rat bastards is also losing its power for me. Not strong enough.
to be continued, and thanks for comment.
best, libby
Libby, I appreciate that much.
I have spent the whole year since the March 11 earthquake reading on the horrors of the ongoing and continuing radiation coming from the total meltdowns of the four reactors in Fukushima Prefecture in Japan.
I follow a site and have been called enenews.com.
I sometimes want to throw up yellow puke afterwards.
In between that and keeping up with the things I care about like water and food issues there is little time for me.
Watching and reading the arguments of who versus whoever is sometimes too much for me.
I try to use what time I have wisely.
But I have been following you for a while now simply because often you say the things I would have said, at least in part.
Please continue to speak out from your heart and let the chips fall where they may.
Some times cages don't need rattled, they need a good cleaning.
And then fresh air moves in.
Yes.
I have spent the whole year since the March 11 earthquake reading on the horrors of the ongoing and continuing radiation coming from the total meltdowns of the four reactors in Fukushima Prefecture in Japan.
I follow a site and have been called enenews.com.
I sometimes want to throw up yellow puke afterwards.
In between that and keeping up with the things I care about like water and food issues there is little time for me.
Watching and reading the arguments of who versus whoever is sometimes too much for me.
I try to use what time I have wisely.
But I have been following you for a while now simply because often you say the things I would have said, at least in part.
Please continue to speak out from your heart and let the chips fall where they may.
Some times cages don't need rattled, they need a good cleaning.
And then fresh air moves in.
Yes.
Libby, as I mentioned several times to you in the past, I think a good deal of your disappointment in, and anger toward, Barack Obama stems from unrealistic expectations. When Obama was running and you were supporting him…you assumed he meant what he said and intended to do what he said he was going to do. You were too interested in the lyrics…not paying nearly enough attention to the music.
Considering the state of American politics (and politics throughout the history of humanity) you don’t get much more unrealistic than that.
Now you are here writing:
And an honest and perfect candidate who Chomsky says represents PEACE, PEOPLE AND PLANET is treated like the Rumplestiltskin scenario, HER NAME MUST NEVER BE MENTIONED or POOOOOOOOOF goes the corporate lock on all of us.
…and…
Jill Stein, Jill Stein, Jill Stein!!!!
…and…
The Green party says voting Green is not an alternative, it is an imperative. I think they got that right. But how does a candidate who won't play the dirty game get into the game that is now so rigged…
Libby, apparently you haven’t learned anything! You are still making the same mistakes. You are just setting yourself up for more disappointments.
Fortunately, Jill Stein doesn’t have a prayer of being elected mayor of a small town, let alone president of the United States, so we will be spared having to listen to your tirades when the eventual and almost certain disappointments would come up.
Not sure how you will finally learn that lesson, but you are a decent person and I hope it does happen.
Considering the state of American politics (and politics throughout the history of humanity) you don’t get much more unrealistic than that.
Now you are here writing:
And an honest and perfect candidate who Chomsky says represents PEACE, PEOPLE AND PLANET is treated like the Rumplestiltskin scenario, HER NAME MUST NEVER BE MENTIONED or POOOOOOOOOF goes the corporate lock on all of us.
…and…
Jill Stein, Jill Stein, Jill Stein!!!!
…and…
The Green party says voting Green is not an alternative, it is an imperative. I think they got that right. But how does a candidate who won't play the dirty game get into the game that is now so rigged…
Libby, apparently you haven’t learned anything! You are still making the same mistakes. You are just setting yourself up for more disappointments.
Fortunately, Jill Stein doesn’t have a prayer of being elected mayor of a small town, let alone president of the United States, so we will be spared having to listen to your tirades when the eventual and almost certain disappointments would come up.
Not sure how you will finally learn that lesson, but you are a decent person and I hope it does happen.
Matt, thanks for coming back.
Do you know how hard it was to gird myself into not being totally seduced by the attribute "bold intelligence"???? I felt like what's her name in Jerry Maguire who gets had at "hello".
An emotional woman blogger is easily dismissed as just a ranter. But as I said above to Mission, I think the progressives need passion and heart and a willingness to talk REAL morality, not the bullshit anti-Christ faux-Christian crap coming out of the right.
Sorry to play the quotations game with you, and you would never be my top choice to tilt with as rep of a patriarchy of Obamacratic cronyism at OS. I see what a VIP citizen you are here, a seriously talented and generous one. I don't know your politics enuf, true, but I didn't want to get patronized for the sake of the depth of the issues I was talking about above. I didn't want them lost to commenter gamesmanship.
Having Frank avoid the issues cited is not "rational" to me. I could have taken off the quotes around that by the way.
I HATE being hog-tied as a US citizen into a choice of two evil candidates. No, I won't honor Obama with the "lesser" prefix. He jumped the shark on that early early early in his reign.
Impeachment vs. re-election, that is a really big divide in the progressive world, and not many of us are willing to introduce or use the "i" word, despite war crimes continuing on and on and on. And ... well the rest, what Paul Street listed so well above, and that, too, is the tip of the iceberg.
Thanks for visiting and commenting! I fear OS cronyism because of dangerous group-thinking, and yet I also enjoy it. But that is one of the challenges of negotiating life, the individual vs and with society, is it not?
Glad to hear your praise of Jan Sand, indeed!
As for "no remote chance of winning" I recently met Jill Stein and told her I would back her with the belief that she could be our next president. Obama's nod from Oprah, how many millions of the 80 million do you think that got him? I did suggest the rubber tree plant song as her theme song which she didn't go for, and someone at work told me that was the theme song of JFK's campaign (I wonder if that had something, also, to do with his association with Sinatra at that point?). Anyway, I will fight "learned helplessness" refrains no matter who utters them. Firesign Theater had a line, "You can't get there from here."
Why not? RFK said he liked to ask "Why not?" instead of "Why?" Bishop Sheen said, "Better to light one candle than curse the darkness." We can have an honorable and integrity leader at the helm. The devil is not gonna prevail in this war!!! And I want to fight on the opposite side of the devil!!!
Thanks for popping in and popping back. :)
best, libby
Do you know how hard it was to gird myself into not being totally seduced by the attribute "bold intelligence"???? I felt like what's her name in Jerry Maguire who gets had at "hello".
An emotional woman blogger is easily dismissed as just a ranter. But as I said above to Mission, I think the progressives need passion and heart and a willingness to talk REAL morality, not the bullshit anti-Christ faux-Christian crap coming out of the right.
Sorry to play the quotations game with you, and you would never be my top choice to tilt with as rep of a patriarchy of Obamacratic cronyism at OS. I see what a VIP citizen you are here, a seriously talented and generous one. I don't know your politics enuf, true, but I didn't want to get patronized for the sake of the depth of the issues I was talking about above. I didn't want them lost to commenter gamesmanship.
Having Frank avoid the issues cited is not "rational" to me. I could have taken off the quotes around that by the way.
I HATE being hog-tied as a US citizen into a choice of two evil candidates. No, I won't honor Obama with the "lesser" prefix. He jumped the shark on that early early early in his reign.
Impeachment vs. re-election, that is a really big divide in the progressive world, and not many of us are willing to introduce or use the "i" word, despite war crimes continuing on and on and on. And ... well the rest, what Paul Street listed so well above, and that, too, is the tip of the iceberg.
Thanks for visiting and commenting! I fear OS cronyism because of dangerous group-thinking, and yet I also enjoy it. But that is one of the challenges of negotiating life, the individual vs and with society, is it not?
Glad to hear your praise of Jan Sand, indeed!
As for "no remote chance of winning" I recently met Jill Stein and told her I would back her with the belief that she could be our next president. Obama's nod from Oprah, how many millions of the 80 million do you think that got him? I did suggest the rubber tree plant song as her theme song which she didn't go for, and someone at work told me that was the theme song of JFK's campaign (I wonder if that had something, also, to do with his association with Sinatra at that point?). Anyway, I will fight "learned helplessness" refrains no matter who utters them. Firesign Theater had a line, "You can't get there from here."
Why not? RFK said he liked to ask "Why not?" instead of "Why?" Bishop Sheen said, "Better to light one candle than curse the darkness." We can have an honorable and integrity leader at the helm. The devil is not gonna prevail in this war!!! And I want to fight on the opposite side of the devil!!!
Thanks for popping in and popping back. :)
best, libby
Libby
We of the Write Brain Luddite Party need to organize and donothing to make sure that Nothing gets done. The greatest wisdom is by times to recognize when there is Nothing to be done, and then DO IT!. ( I'm campaigning for a Token presidency myself- ie a president who will promise to vigorously do nothing and do nothing vigorously . Tink can be the president in charge of vice,.
( he's a little two obstreperous to be any good at doing nothing, but I'm willing to be reasonable, afterhall, Tink is one of the most reasonable cats on OS)
We of the Write Brain Luddite Party need to organize and donothing to make sure that Nothing gets done. The greatest wisdom is by times to recognize when there is Nothing to be done, and then DO IT!. ( I'm campaigning for a Token presidency myself- ie a president who will promise to vigorously do nothing and do nothing vigorously . Tink can be the president in charge of vice,.
( he's a little two obstreperous to be any good at doing nothing, but I'm willing to be reasonable, afterhall, Tink is one of the most reasonable cats on OS)
HAH!!! You go, Herr Herr!!! As for Tink, he kinda scares me. best, libby
Awww, Frank, you slipped in there. You are kind of volunteer Governor of the state of LEARNED HELPLESSNESS imho.
I guess if I want to be an ant moving rubber tree plants that is my God-given right. Maybe not my American right .... for long, anyway.
Ken Keyes was it who had the theory of 100 monkeys. Once the proverbial 100th monkey hears about Jill Stein, and that is not an easy job given the media blackout on honest and qualified people not pimped out to rabid rat bastards ones, then the entire monkey nation will know of her.
Jill ran for governor of MA last time and had more Green votes than anyone had ever gleaned. She has run 5 times and is good on her feet and would clean anyone's clock in a debate, and do it graciously and intelligently and simply. No bullshit mystification with her.
Green Party values are global. I would like to talk about humanitarian values once again. The legacy parties don't even bother talking the talk (even with insincerity) any more. It is winner take all, and "bite me" to the lower 99%.
libby
I guess if I want to be an ant moving rubber tree plants that is my God-given right. Maybe not my American right .... for long, anyway.
Ken Keyes was it who had the theory of 100 monkeys. Once the proverbial 100th monkey hears about Jill Stein, and that is not an easy job given the media blackout on honest and qualified people not pimped out to rabid rat bastards ones, then the entire monkey nation will know of her.
Jill ran for governor of MA last time and had more Green votes than anyone had ever gleaned. She has run 5 times and is good on her feet and would clean anyone's clock in a debate, and do it graciously and intelligently and simply. No bullshit mystification with her.
Green Party values are global. I would like to talk about humanitarian values once again. The legacy parties don't even bother talking the talk (even with insincerity) any more. It is winner take all, and "bite me" to the lower 99%.
libby
Maybe next blog will be about Jill Stein as "media unperson"!
Either that or "Israel Firsters" as deliberate and willful "media unpeople" and how that serves them and Israel's Zionists well.
Either that or "Israel Firsters" as deliberate and willful "media unpeople" and how that serves them and Israel's Zionists well.
Mission, back at ya, in terms of mutual resonating!!! There are so many fronts, so many fresh hells!!! We do what we can ... and considering what is coming at us fast and furiously, that is asking a lot. I gotta walk the walk and not get lost to talking the talk myself in terms of time and irl calls! Really glad I caught this last response and always appreciate another source of reality, thanks for link, and thanks, too, for the validation! to be continued, my friend! best, libby :)
Jill ran for governor of MA last time and had more Green votes than anyone had ever gleaned. She has run 5 times and is good on her feet and would clean anyone's clock in a debate, and do it graciously and intelligently and simply. No bullshit mystification with her.
Green Party values are global. I would like to talk about humanitarian values once again. The legacy parties don't even bother talking the talk (even with insincerity) any more. It is winner take all, and "bite me" to the lower 99%.
As I said, Libby...you haven't learned a thing.
Too bad that. If some that anger could be harnessed and put to good use instead of being wasted, maybe something of value could come of it.
By the way...do you know what they call someone who loses while garnering more votes than anyone has before?
Yup...a loser!
If Jill won (she won't even come close)...my guess is she would be corrupted instantly. The politicians who would flock to the Green banner would be as corrupted as the ones who now inhabit the major parties.
The sun will come up tomorrow...
Green Party values are global. I would like to talk about humanitarian values once again. The legacy parties don't even bother talking the talk (even with insincerity) any more. It is winner take all, and "bite me" to the lower 99%.
As I said, Libby...you haven't learned a thing.
Too bad that. If some that anger could be harnessed and put to good use instead of being wasted, maybe something of value could come of it.
By the way...do you know what they call someone who loses while garnering more votes than anyone has before?
Yup...a loser!
If Jill won (she won't even come close)...my guess is she would be corrupted instantly. The politicians who would flock to the Green banner would be as corrupted as the ones who now inhabit the major parties.
The sun will come up tomorrow...
F-Sadly, there are millions of "learned helpless" Americans such as you. Cynical and Stockholm Syndromed and very protective of the status quo where they have tragically invested their egos with a lot of help from their faux-media friends. Maybe there is not enough time for Stein for 2012, though I am not embracing that, but there is a time for every purpose, especially a good one, under heaven, and there will be future elections. I am focused on 2012, but Jill and more like her are here and will be coming. And in the battle between good and evil, what is compromise and what is full sell-out is discernible within each of us if we are strong enough to heed it. libby
fRANK's response comes down to: it's all your fault, Libby, because You believed what Obongo said, which rests on the presumption that all people are compulsive and unrepentant liars like fRANK.
Libby
Seriously, doesn't this remind you a bit of the situation where everyone is running around screaming "SHUT UP!" as loud as they can and they can't seem to understand why it keeps getting louder and louder?
I studied psychology with a slant toward psycholinguistics, and a memorable experiment was one in which the subjects were gathered together for a debate. The two debaters were talking about a heavily emotionally charged issue ( I can’t remember if it was date rape or abortion) There were about 20 kids in the room as subjects with 3 “plants” as well as the debaters in on the experiment. The plot was for the debate to grow hotter and hotter and the plants in the audience to grow more demonstrative in their agreement/disagreement with the debater and each other. In instances where the plants essentially aided the chaos by “Making it personal” and setting the lead in arguing with each other, it took very little time to reduce the whole room to a screaming match. On the other hand, when the strategically located plants ( one sitting within arms reach of each subject) remained calm no matter how heated the debate became between the two debaters, and further made calming and reassuring gestures to anyone who seemed to be getting too involved the audience never did become participants.
People like Frank are very good at acting as “plants” either calming or adding heat as needed to keep things “moving along” at the desired speed. I honestly can’t tell you whether it is “god given Belief” on his part or really an awesome level of cynicism.
The other half of the experiment was to see how long it took to calm the class back down when the Plants became calm and quiet and civil. Worked like a charm
Sometimes the best way to quiet a situation is to regain your own inner peace and radiate calm.
In the ‘60’s I was a Nixon republican and a wrestler at Ohio State, and hated the SDS, but I was utterly charmed by the pure peace and love that radiated from some of the flower children. ( NOT just cute little hippy chicks, either- though that was a factor) music has charm to soothe the savage breast. I sure felt it. And it utterly dismayed me to see my friends walking between the lines of guardsmen and demonstrators on the OSU campus in spring, 1970, trying to calm things down while SDS provocateurs threw rocks and bottles and bags of shit over their heads at the guardsmen, When I run into some old fart recounting his “Glory Days” in the ‘60’s when he went into battle for the SDS, I still have a little trouble repressing the urge to strangle him.
Anyway, may I suggest that we need a period where we all just stop yelling so that we can finally find ourselves in a “space” where the “professional” plants are the only ones yelling, and everyone else is looking at them with amused grins. That is the essence of “Rat Hockey” . That and when your opponent says “I’m going to hang myself!” realizing that it’s time to give him a rope, pull up a chair, say “action!” and settle back for some real entertainment.
May I recommend the TV show “The Good Wife” on CBS as a depiction of “Rat Hockey” play at an exceptional level?
Seriously, doesn't this remind you a bit of the situation where everyone is running around screaming "SHUT UP!" as loud as they can and they can't seem to understand why it keeps getting louder and louder?
I studied psychology with a slant toward psycholinguistics, and a memorable experiment was one in which the subjects were gathered together for a debate. The two debaters were talking about a heavily emotionally charged issue ( I can’t remember if it was date rape or abortion) There were about 20 kids in the room as subjects with 3 “plants” as well as the debaters in on the experiment. The plot was for the debate to grow hotter and hotter and the plants in the audience to grow more demonstrative in their agreement/disagreement with the debater and each other. In instances where the plants essentially aided the chaos by “Making it personal” and setting the lead in arguing with each other, it took very little time to reduce the whole room to a screaming match. On the other hand, when the strategically located plants ( one sitting within arms reach of each subject) remained calm no matter how heated the debate became between the two debaters, and further made calming and reassuring gestures to anyone who seemed to be getting too involved the audience never did become participants.
People like Frank are very good at acting as “plants” either calming or adding heat as needed to keep things “moving along” at the desired speed. I honestly can’t tell you whether it is “god given Belief” on his part or really an awesome level of cynicism.
The other half of the experiment was to see how long it took to calm the class back down when the Plants became calm and quiet and civil. Worked like a charm
Sometimes the best way to quiet a situation is to regain your own inner peace and radiate calm.
In the ‘60’s I was a Nixon republican and a wrestler at Ohio State, and hated the SDS, but I was utterly charmed by the pure peace and love that radiated from some of the flower children. ( NOT just cute little hippy chicks, either- though that was a factor) music has charm to soothe the savage breast. I sure felt it. And it utterly dismayed me to see my friends walking between the lines of guardsmen and demonstrators on the OSU campus in spring, 1970, trying to calm things down while SDS provocateurs threw rocks and bottles and bags of shit over their heads at the guardsmen, When I run into some old fart recounting his “Glory Days” in the ‘60’s when he went into battle for the SDS, I still have a little trouble repressing the urge to strangle him.
Anyway, may I suggest that we need a period where we all just stop yelling so that we can finally find ourselves in a “space” where the “professional” plants are the only ones yelling, and everyone else is looking at them with amused grins. That is the essence of “Rat Hockey” . That and when your opponent says “I’m going to hang myself!” realizing that it’s time to give him a rope, pull up a chair, say “action!” and settle back for some real entertainment.
May I recommend the TV show “The Good Wife” on CBS as a depiction of “Rat Hockey” play at an exceptional level?
PS- The most "reassuring" gesture?, an amused grin.
What is particularly distressing to me is the kind of trance behavior of several varieties. Frank is outstanding as someone standing in the midst of the total wreckage of the political system where the functional interactions of the three sectors of the government, executive, judicial and legislative, have had their active membership replaced by shills for the corporate and financial corruptors and treating this theatrical farce as a believable and functional system. Anyone with a decent respect for a working system is naturally more or less in a state of hysteria since there are no formal social tools to revert the system to functional behavior. There are others who treat this surreal theater as cynically amusing with seemingly no consciousness of how this once reasonably functioning country is sliding inexorably into totalitarian insanity as its basic fundamental systems disintegrate and the future, out of both human and natural disaster, presents only a fate of terrible misery and most probably horrifying brutality.
Although your green candidate seems to have sanity and reason on her side I see little in the US population to encourage that those impulses have enough support to stem the oncoming tsunami of misery powered by frustration, deprivation, ignorance and brutal stupidity of official reaction. The latest suppression by the Mayor of New York of a very peaceful gathering of a few people is the initial indication of the vicious hand of the police state becoming a standard reaction. There is little doubt it will inspire a backlash that may restore some sensible official response but the most likely result will be even more forceful government reaction that has a good chance of naked violence and major tragedy taking hold.
Although your green candidate seems to have sanity and reason on her side I see little in the US population to encourage that those impulses have enough support to stem the oncoming tsunami of misery powered by frustration, deprivation, ignorance and brutal stupidity of official reaction. The latest suppression by the Mayor of New York of a very peaceful gathering of a few people is the initial indication of the vicious hand of the police state becoming a standard reaction. There is little doubt it will inspire a backlash that may restore some sensible official response but the most likely result will be even more forceful government reaction that has a good chance of naked violence and major tragedy taking hold.
Herr and Jan, thanks for coming by and I will ponder your wisdom and takes now and on rereading soon. I am about to post an angry (and Herr, I don't see anything wrong with ANGER, better than being lost in the trance, though the conflict-averse scatter because of the anti-cronyism anti-group think that it challenges them with) blog about Bill Keller's bullshit reflection on the NYT and the Iraq War. I hope you both find it and contribute your thoughts.
Jan re the chances of Stein, I know I know. But I am fighting for the integrity and survival of my own soul at this point, no matter what the odds, that fuels me. Also what fuels me my fellows honoring their own souls and fighting evil. Take the action. Let go of the result. Being a part of the solution and not contributing to the deadweight of the problem.
What's my option? Lesser-evilism? No way.
best, libby
Jan re the chances of Stein, I know I know. But I am fighting for the integrity and survival of my own soul at this point, no matter what the odds, that fuels me. Also what fuels me my fellows honoring their own souls and fighting evil. Take the action. Let go of the result. Being a part of the solution and not contributing to the deadweight of the problem.
What's my option? Lesser-evilism? No way.
best, libby
"As for George Carlin, he didn't suffer fools. It was beyond show biz with him. Mort Sahl kind of lost his appeal when he became passionate about politics. Lennie Bruce and Carlin used their rage well, raised consciousness with their passion and integrity imho. "
You are right about that, and he would have reserved an upper bunk in Hell for fools who wished him to rest in peace. I know he's having a blast down there.
He was wickedly funny and could stick it to conservatives so cleverly they probably never noticed. I like his later work where he really got down to it, like this:
"There's a reason for this, there's a reason education sucks, and it's the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. It's never going to get any better. Don't look for it. Be happy with what you've got... because the owners of this country don’t want that. I'm talking about the real owners now... the real owners. The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls. They got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin’ years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later 'cause they own this fuckin' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted, folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good, honest, hard-working people: white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good, honest, hard-working people continue — these are people of modest means — continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all! At all! At all! And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes every day, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream, 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it. "
You are right about that, and he would have reserved an upper bunk in Hell for fools who wished him to rest in peace. I know he's having a blast down there.
He was wickedly funny and could stick it to conservatives so cleverly they probably never noticed. I like his later work where he really got down to it, like this:
"There's a reason for this, there's a reason education sucks, and it's the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. It's never going to get any better. Don't look for it. Be happy with what you've got... because the owners of this country don’t want that. I'm talking about the real owners now... the real owners. The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls. They got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin’ years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later 'cause they own this fuckin' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted, folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good, honest, hard-working people: white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good, honest, hard-working people continue — these are people of modest means — continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all! At all! At all! And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes every day, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream, 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it. "
Herr Rude
People like Frank are very good at acting as “plants” either calming or adding heat as needed to keep things “moving along” at the desired speed. I honestly can’t tell you whether it is “god given Belief” on his part or really an awesome level of cynicism.
You are addressing remarks to Libby about ME being cynical???
To Libby?
C’mon…my problem with Libby and Jan is that they are both cynical beyond cynicism.
Now Libby is touting Jill Stein and the Greens as a solution to politicians who become corrupted by power!
What on Earth would cause anyone to think that changing the name of a party would make a difference?
Power tends to corrupt…and damn near every leader (call them politicians if you will) has become corrupted by his/her power. THROUGHOUT RECORDED HISTORY!
Every country…every civilization that we know of has had this problem.
Libby…and many others here in OS…actually thought Barack Obama was going to enter office and wars were going to stop…America was going to stop bullying…and the disparity between the haves and have-nots was going to diminish or disappear.
THAT WAS NOT EVERY GOING TO HAPPEN. The REALITY was that Obama would do the best he could in an incredibly hostile political environment…which I think he did do. No cynicism there…just a realistic look at what could be done and what was done under the conditions prevailing. Libby, and those like her, had unrealistic expectations…and they still have.
Now Libby think if only the Greens and Jill Stein would get into office…the wars are going to stop…American will stop bullying…and the disparity between the haves and have-nots will diminish or disappear.
People like Frank are very good at acting as “plants” either calming or adding heat as needed to keep things “moving along” at the desired speed. I honestly can’t tell you whether it is “god given Belief” on his part or really an awesome level of cynicism.
You are addressing remarks to Libby about ME being cynical???
To Libby?
C’mon…my problem with Libby and Jan is that they are both cynical beyond cynicism.
Now Libby is touting Jill Stein and the Greens as a solution to politicians who become corrupted by power!
What on Earth would cause anyone to think that changing the name of a party would make a difference?
Power tends to corrupt…and damn near every leader (call them politicians if you will) has become corrupted by his/her power. THROUGHOUT RECORDED HISTORY!
Every country…every civilization that we know of has had this problem.
Libby…and many others here in OS…actually thought Barack Obama was going to enter office and wars were going to stop…America was going to stop bullying…and the disparity between the haves and have-nots was going to diminish or disappear.
THAT WAS NOT EVERY GOING TO HAPPEN. The REALITY was that Obama would do the best he could in an incredibly hostile political environment…which I think he did do. No cynicism there…just a realistic look at what could be done and what was done under the conditions prevailing. Libby, and those like her, had unrealistic expectations…and they still have.
Now Libby think if only the Greens and Jill Stein would get into office…the wars are going to stop…American will stop bullying…and the disparity between the haves and have-nots will diminish or disappear.
Cynical?
Realistic?
C'mon, fRANK, obviously you're too stupid to be cynical or realistic.
Stop taking those stupid stupid supplements. They're, hard as it may seem to be, making you worse.
Realistic?
C'mon, fRANK, obviously you're too stupid to be cynical or realistic.
Stop taking those stupid stupid supplements. They're, hard as it may seem to be, making you worse.
Even if the OWS enlightenment were to miraculously elect Jill Stein president, it would be merely a symbolic victory for sanity - no small accomplishment, obviously, but practically impotent without a majority of like-thinking representatives in Congress to support her budget recommendations and other initiatives. It's true that if this unlikely scenario were to unfold, its symbolic authority might prove to be more persuasive of congressional priorities than corporate gifts, even to the extent of a surge in Green candidates in the mid-term elections. As I see it, any hope of averting a veil-lifting of the plutocracy so obvious even the Tea Part would finally catch on rests on whether and how sturdy will grow the tree from the seed planted during the several months the Occupy Wall Street movement cut thru demographic layers like a spade and gave us all a sustained glimpse of the monster's unmasked face. I'm sure many are frantically trying to erase that hideous visage from memory, and the powers of denial in our TV-medicated, comfort-baited society are our biggest challenge in keeping this from happening, but even a significant reversal of Republican fortunes in Congress can further energize Green-thinking activists and better our chances of routing the bastards for at least a cycle or two. After that, well, we're human and power does corrupt, eventually - even righteous power.
The two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the current build-up against Iran, the ousting of Gaddafi, the current problems in Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland, are all exercises of the power of the economic elite for oil, for re-allocating wealth upwards and these are world shaking events. I cannot see the corporate-military-financial people in control as simply backing off over even such an unlikely event as a green victory. If there is a change it will take place with extreme violence. I dread this but I see no other way.
@Jan , if extreme violence comes I believe we'll have backed into it, as I can't imagine the corporate-financial-military elite being so short-sighted as to deliberately make war on the very market that sustains it. Backing into it, of course, is highly possible, plausible and likely to bring the whole damned house crashing down. How cheap is land in Finland?
ordinary, I appreciate the Carlin transcript. powerful. i may print it out and carry it with me for reality checks on how bad things really are. one of his BEST!!!!!!
hooded Matt (good for you with the hoodie!) and Jan, I think of Margaret Mead quote: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
What also gives me hope is that the Green Party is an international party. A franchise in US if you will, but with a roster of principles to function from. The Greens in the US have a lot of work to do, and hopefully will get help from new recruits. Maybe Green party commonality in countries could bring back diplomacy which has been seemingly dumped by the US and the western powers. Economic mafia is the word for their agenda-making with weapons of mass destruction as enforcer. They don't have to be nuclear to be weapons of mass destruction.
In this style not substance, personality over principle, world, I think the focus on values that the Greens have, that the Republicans abandoned long ago arrogantly self righteously under Reagan especially, but which the Dems have shamelessly abandoned, led by the American Judas Obama,who refuses even to explain his awesome betraying flipflops meanwhile calling out Romney for flip floppiness, dear God! Anyway, the Greens have a roster of values to platform and govern from.
Herr, I have to rein in my exasperation more I know. I just feel there is such mass psychosis of under-responsiveness on the part of "good people" ... the ability to respond, which I have to struggle with myself irl and in my idealistic world of wanting to reform things.
guys, I watched Bingaman (sp?) is it and Snowe talking about their frustration of the lack of compromising in Senate on Newshour. Really? As I see it, there is not adherence to real human and civil values and too much faux-pragmatic erosion of what must be safe-guarded. They are compromising what should not be tweaked at all, which is a given, rights and entitlements (entitlements without the Orwellian spin!) They are pimped out to corporatism and they don't even seem to get it or they are such slick liars. I don't know anymore. Like I don't know if Obama is authoritarian or authoritarian follower, but the followers are mentored and easily step into the authoritarianism demagoguery ultimately.
Our government doesn't have to use weapons on its citizens, nor do they have to strong arm that many dissidents, the media and cronyism hypnotizes the citizenry to betrayal and treason of themselves their descendants, their fellow citizens and the global family of men, women and children.
thanks for additional comments!
best, libby
hooded Matt (good for you with the hoodie!) and Jan, I think of Margaret Mead quote: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
What also gives me hope is that the Green Party is an international party. A franchise in US if you will, but with a roster of principles to function from. The Greens in the US have a lot of work to do, and hopefully will get help from new recruits. Maybe Green party commonality in countries could bring back diplomacy which has been seemingly dumped by the US and the western powers. Economic mafia is the word for their agenda-making with weapons of mass destruction as enforcer. They don't have to be nuclear to be weapons of mass destruction.
In this style not substance, personality over principle, world, I think the focus on values that the Greens have, that the Republicans abandoned long ago arrogantly self righteously under Reagan especially, but which the Dems have shamelessly abandoned, led by the American Judas Obama,who refuses even to explain his awesome betraying flipflops meanwhile calling out Romney for flip floppiness, dear God! Anyway, the Greens have a roster of values to platform and govern from.
Herr, I have to rein in my exasperation more I know. I just feel there is such mass psychosis of under-responsiveness on the part of "good people" ... the ability to respond, which I have to struggle with myself irl and in my idealistic world of wanting to reform things.
guys, I watched Bingaman (sp?) is it and Snowe talking about their frustration of the lack of compromising in Senate on Newshour. Really? As I see it, there is not adherence to real human and civil values and too much faux-pragmatic erosion of what must be safe-guarded. They are compromising what should not be tweaked at all, which is a given, rights and entitlements (entitlements without the Orwellian spin!) They are pimped out to corporatism and they don't even seem to get it or they are such slick liars. I don't know anymore. Like I don't know if Obama is authoritarian or authoritarian follower, but the followers are mentored and easily step into the authoritarianism demagoguery ultimately.
Our government doesn't have to use weapons on its citizens, nor do they have to strong arm that many dissidents, the media and cronyism hypnotizes the citizenry to betrayal and treason of themselves their descendants, their fellow citizens and the global family of men, women and children.
thanks for additional comments!
best, libby
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