Despite excessive media coverage of the Sikh Temple massacre in Wisconsin on Sunday, August 5, 2012, perpetrated by veteran Wade Michael Page, according to Eric London at wsws our corporate media once again missed the critical element of the story, “the close connections between the US Armed Forces and various fascistic and white supremacist organizations."
Mr. London:
US Armed Forces recruiters, officers and high-ranking executive branch officials have quietly provided fascist organizations with opportunities to recruit soldiers into the ranks of the National Socialist Movement, Hammerskins, White Military Men and National Alliance
London proceeds to lay out an alarming not all that recent trend in the US military, in need of military person-power, to turn a blind eye and even to develop an appreciative respect for avowed neo-Nazis who have a mythic regard for themselves as “superwarriors” in the war for white supremacy. A chilling passage from London’s article:
As Jacob Berg, an active service soldier in Iraq and a member of the fascist Blood & Honour group, explained to Salon journalist Matt Kennard, “There are actually a lot more ‘skinheads,’ ‘Nazis,’ white supremacists now [in the military] than there has been in a long time.” Berg wrote in an E-mail exchange with Kennard, “Us racists are actually getting into the military a lot now because if we don’t every one who already is [in the military] will take pity on killing sand niggers…. I’m so proud of my kills [because] by killing a brown [person] many white people will live to see a new dawn.”
Maybe the enabling of Al Qaeda fighters by the US CIA in Syria should not be so surprising after putting these disclosures in context. Craven ends justifies craven means once again?
Re the Sikh massacre, it was Wade Michael Page, self-identified neo-Nazi, and former US service member, who murdered six and critically wounded three before shooting himself after having been shot by the police.
London discloses:
He [Page] really started to identify with neo-Nazism during his time in the military,” said University of Nebraska criminologist Pete Simi, who met Page during a 2001 study on white power groups. “And specifically, what he told me at one point was that, if you join the military and you’re not a racist, then you certainly will be by the time you leave."
The Hammerskins, National Alliance, and a variety of other neo-Nazi groups were continuously involved in recruitment efforts at numerous Armed Forces bases across the US during the time of Page’s military service, according to reports by the FBI and the Southern Poverty Law Center. The findings point to especially high levels of fascist activity at Fort Bragg Army Base in North Carolina, where Page was stationed between 1995 and 1998.
London goes on to describe the troubling presence and at times violence of US military neo-Nazis:
Around the time that Page arrived in Fort Bragg, three neo-Nazi members of the 82nd Airborne Division were arrested for the murder of a black couple in nearby Fayetteville. A subsequent investigation uncovered nearly two-dozen soldiers with connections to neo-Nazis at Fort Bragg.
snip
In 1992, a group of Fort Bragg soldiers organized a white supremacy paramilitary cell called the Special Forces Underground, which was affiliated with the National Alliance.
Over a decade later, a neo-Nazi intelligence officer stationed in Iraq was caught attempting to mail weapons back to the United States.
In 2006, the Southern Poverty Law Center discovered online groups of neo-Nazis made up of Fort Bragg soldiers.
Currently, “outside every major military installation, you will have at least two or three active neo-Nazi organizations actively trying to recruit on-duty personnel,” explained TJ Leyden, a former neo-Nazi told the Christian Science Monitor.
Fascists “stretch across all branches of [military] service, they are linking up across the branches once they’re inside, and they are hard-core,” former Defense Department gang detective Scott Barfield told the SPLC in 2006, adding: “there’s plenty of evidence we’re talking numbers well into the thousands, just in the Army.”
Well into the thousands! Certainly cause for alarm and media attention, except maybe it embarrasses the current administration and the last Bush one and impression management once again trumps surreal and toxic reality and its need for disclosure, exploration and accountability! And, again, the need for those bodies to slaughter, and clearly those with a racist zealousness for killing are all the more efficient. Like those Al Qaeda troops successfully terrorizing citizen Syrians right now.
... the recruitment of open members of fascist groups is government policy. In response to declining enlistment numbers after the invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration removed gang-activity barriers to enlistment in 2005. Since the government does not make qualitative distinctions between fascist groups and street gangs, the decision amounted to an open-door policy for neo-Nazis.
snip
Tom Metzger, a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and current leader of the White Aryan Resistance, told Salon that the military was more tolerant of fascists. “Now they are letting everybody in,” Metzger said.
snip
Officers and administration officials either directly or tacitly support the recruitment of fascists. “Recruiters are knowingly allowing neo-Nazis and white supremacists to join the armed forces, and commanders don’t remove them… even after we positively identify them as extremists or gang members,” says former Defense Department detective Barfield.
London reveals anecdotal evidence of such a collective military “blind eye” to the neo-Nazis:
TJ Leyden explained that officers often are ambivalent to open support for fascism within the Armed Forces. Leyden recalls that when he hung a Nazi flag in his barracks, “the only thing my commander would say was, ‘Hey, can you do me a favor? Can you take that flag down when the CG [commanding general] comes through?’”
snip
Forrest Fogarty, a neo-Nazi veteran of the Iraq War, told Salon in 2008 that the Army was well aware of his involvement with fascist groups but did nothing to punish him. When Fogarty’s ex-girlfriend mailed the Armed Forces a file of photographs showing him at fascist rallies and performing in a Nazi band, Fogarty explained that, “they hauled me before some sort of committee and showed me the pictures… They knew what I was about. But they let it go because I’m a great soldier.”
In 2005 after being honorably discharged, Fogarty was asked to reenlist.
snip
US Armed Forces officers had a similar response when a photograph showing the I Marine Expeditionary Force in Afghanistan posing with the SS flag surfaced in early 2012. Local commanders had been aware of the photos for months and refused to discipline the soldiers outside of asking them to avoid further photographing sessions with the SS flag.
London goes as far as to describe the relationship between the US military and fascist organizations as “incestuous”.
As the murders in Wisconsin and previous experiences such as the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing show, the US military—with the tacit or open blessing of the Pentagon brass and representatives of both political parties—has become the incubator of the most politically reactionary elements....
It is apparent that layers within the military value right-wing nationalist groups for adding to the culture of violence and genocide that coincides with the aims of the US military in its neo-colonial wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. With the lies about the “war on terror” in shatters—as the US allies itself with al Qaeda in Libya and Syria to achieve its geo-political aims—the American government and military must increasingly rely on the most reactionary ideological views to justify its imperialist wars, occupations and brutal subjugation of foreign populations.
The American army being more and more overrun by neo-Nazis? Time to fight our collective illusions and rally against such an Orwellian and dooming reality.
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UPDATE: I am having technical trouble inserting comments below right now, but I wanted to add some additional passages about this issue I found:
"In 1995, eight months before the Fort Bragg murders, two former Army soldiers bombed the Oklahoma City federal building, killing 168 people. With a growing awareness of the spreading militia movement, the Pentagon in 1996 banned military personnel from participating in supremacist causes and authorized commanders to cashier personnel for rallying, recruiting or training racists."
"What's scary about Page is that he served in the 1990s when putatively this was being treated quite seriously by the military. There's plenty of other Pages who served during the war on terror, and we don't know what they're going to be doing over the next decade or so," said Matt Kennard, author of the forthcoming book "Irregular Army: How the U.S. Military Recruited Neo-Nazis, Gang Members and Criminals to Fight the War on Terror."
"Kennard argues the U.S. military was so desperate for troops while fighting simultaneous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that it allowed extremists, felons and gang members into the armed forces."
"The military can grant a "moral waiver" to allow a convicted criminal or otherwise ineligible person into the armed forces, and the percentage of recruits granted such waivers grew from 16.7 percent in 2003 to 19.6 percent in 2006, according to Pentagon data obtained by the Palm Center in a 2007 Freedom of Information Act request. But the Pentagon says no waiver exists for participation in extremist organizations."
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"According to a 2005 report sponsored by the US Department of Defence itself, "the military has a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy pertaining to extremism". However, Kennard's investigations suggest that even blatant "telling" often fails to incur meaningful repercussions.
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"Apparently, once a soldier signs on, it can be extremely difficult to remove the extremists, notes Carter F. Smith, a former military investigator. "They are some of the most disciplined soldiers we have," he said. "They [extremists] really want to learn to shoot those weapons.""
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"This problem doesn’t involve only the Nazis, gang-bangers, and other violent personalities worming their way into the military. It also affects the many more formerly normal, non-racist recruits who have been dragged into multiple tours of duty in Iraq, regardless of the psychological dangers of such treatment. This includes many people whose evaluations have recommended they not be returned for duty but have been sent back regardless. Thus the Timothy McVeigh Finishing School continues to operate."
"This has the deadly potential to become a significant component of the predictable surge in far-right activity likely to manifest itself in the United States in the coming months and years, especially as Democrats and liberals expand their hold on power. We run the risk of re-creating the conditions that arose in Germany and Italy after World War I: the presence of scores of angry, disaffected, and psychologically damaged war veterans, fed a steady diet of "Dolchstosslegende," poised to organize into a political force aimed at "rebirthing" the nation and its heritage."
"In our current situation, these veterans not only will have served with neo-Nazis amid their ranks, they will likely be faced with unemployment and a wrecked economy, eager for someone to blame and fully trained and capable of violent action."
"SPLC Chief Counsel Richard Cohen has written another letter to the Defense Secretary pleading that the DoD take concrete steps to deal with this problem. Here's hoping he produces something other than denial this time."
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Matt Kennard on Democracy Now
"A point that must be made, too, is gangs is another huge issue, especially at the bases along the border with Mexico, because they’re involved in trafficking drugs, trafficking weapons, etc. And this is an issue, as well, which has got wide coverage. The Southern Poverty Law Center did important work in 2006 on this. Other groups have been doing it, active duty personnel. But, every time this issue has been raised, the U.S. military has targeted the person raising it. So, soldiers who have said, Look, my unit is riven with white supremacists or gang members, the military has demoted them, has kicked them out of the military. I mean I came across countless examples of that. So this is not something that the military missed by accident. This is something that the military has actively ignored and persecuted the people that are raising the issue. In fact, later on, I think you’re going to have Daryl Johnson on who is the DHS analyst who authored the report about the threat of far right-wing extremism. He was targeted by the DHS as soon as that report came out and right-wing politicians for raising the issue."
[cross-posted on correntewire and sacramento for democracy]
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I don't think anyone should be surprised by this, only by the extent of it. It's been a growing phenomenon for years (I started to type 'growing problem' but some elements don't see it as a problem). The right-wing militias, their cozy relaitons with the US military, and their violence keep being "overlooked" by the MSM. Some people even believe the existence of private armies is protected by the constitution. Of course, they are not. I wish I could rate this multiple times, Libby.
I heard an NPR interview a few weeks ago about this very issue. I can't say I'm surprised, either. It is stuff like this that makes me wish we really could choose where our individual tax dollars go. ... When my brother served in the U.S. Army during the Gulf War, he said Anglo soldiers placed bets behind his back to wager whether or not he'd pass his tests. His friends told him about it.
Libby, the national news organs here are quite afraid to tread on this muddied road. Our military leadership hides the countenanced ritualistic rape by their leader trainees ... I can not believe that civil indictments have not seen the light of day. Also, there are proven connections with these groups and local police ... This sounds way too familiar. ... when they came for me, there was no one left .... We are seriously slipping here in understanding the embedded evil amongst us .... Thanks for sharing. R>>>>>>>>>
We're back to that real ugly questions: Who's protecting us from the ones paid to protect us?
We're back to that real ugly questions: Who's protecting us from the ones paid to protect us?
Libby.. ok I get it, any comment made by me will be deleted. Fine. Your blog space.. all that.
Assuming you read 'em before you delete 'em so I'll say this one last li'l bit and then remove you from my favorites and leave you be forever.
Not to diminish "your work" but the world has problems. 101% of them are caused by humans. Humans are naught but highly evolved apes. . . and "highly evolved" is giving us the benefit of the doubt.
The men of our species are aggressive, murderous and mostly.. motivated by greed. The women are somewhat less heinous (I believe that this planet if ran by women would be better off by far).
There has always been human problems.
There will always be human problems.
That is the constant.
Bet you remember my last deleted comment from your really popular blog (nothing like meta to draw in the commentary!), about my friend who moved to the country to make a go of it, as he believes Armageddon is near upon us.
You should recall that I said he told me in the spring of 2002 that "this will be our last summer of freedom."
To which I said something like (in my mind-- probably just nodded and eyerolled) yeah fine Don. Sure, we're all going to die. The world sucks. The Rothschilds, the Queen of the Netherlands, the Illuminati, the bankers, the military industrial complex.. yeah, we're doomed.
My son, referenced in my screen name for the moment (have you read his piece at my blog?) called my friend, and I do love him still, Doomsday Don. He drove his wife nuts, although she compensated by taking every pill she could her fingers upon.
As much as I like the guy, I would do ANYTHING to steer the conversation away from bloody doom, but in spite my efforts, it always ended up there. You've heard of Winnie the Pooh's Eeyore I assume. Doomsday Eeyore Don. Sigh..
And look, things keep rolling along. Here, ten years after our "last summer of freedom." (Don had the Y2K basement too)
I would say in a Thoreau-ish way maybe, that I'm better off paying no attention to the news cycle which always repeats itself. People doing stupid aggressive things in the name of greed - murder as sport.
It's just depressing. I have zero, nada, zilch control over all that, and neither do you if I may be so bold (once again, not to diminish your good work but it has no, or little, impact.. sorry).
We are out here spinning 'round and 'round on a fairly huge ball of rock somewhere in the midst of infinity. Is there a "god?" I sure hope, but have my doubts- although I have my own views on those things which I have in fact written about at my blog.
Look at my kids' piece from Monday. He's full of life and celebrating it every day. At 53, I can honestly say the same. I control what I can, but/and- adhere somewhat I suppose to what someone once called "the virtue of selfishness."
If I don't take care of me, then who will? I'm no good to others (like my son) if I'm not, myself, ok.
I could go on but am aware I'm mostly talking to my (ever so important.. ha) self.
Keep fighting the good fight I guess, if it makes you happy. Maybe it does.
Assuming you read 'em before you delete 'em so I'll say this one last li'l bit and then remove you from my favorites and leave you be forever.
Not to diminish "your work" but the world has problems. 101% of them are caused by humans. Humans are naught but highly evolved apes. . . and "highly evolved" is giving us the benefit of the doubt.
The men of our species are aggressive, murderous and mostly.. motivated by greed. The women are somewhat less heinous (I believe that this planet if ran by women would be better off by far).
There has always been human problems.
There will always be human problems.
That is the constant.
Bet you remember my last deleted comment from your really popular blog (nothing like meta to draw in the commentary!), about my friend who moved to the country to make a go of it, as he believes Armageddon is near upon us.
You should recall that I said he told me in the spring of 2002 that "this will be our last summer of freedom."
To which I said something like (in my mind-- probably just nodded and eyerolled) yeah fine Don. Sure, we're all going to die. The world sucks. The Rothschilds, the Queen of the Netherlands, the Illuminati, the bankers, the military industrial complex.. yeah, we're doomed.
My son, referenced in my screen name for the moment (have you read his piece at my blog?) called my friend, and I do love him still, Doomsday Don. He drove his wife nuts, although she compensated by taking every pill she could her fingers upon.
As much as I like the guy, I would do ANYTHING to steer the conversation away from bloody doom, but in spite my efforts, it always ended up there. You've heard of Winnie the Pooh's Eeyore I assume. Doomsday Eeyore Don. Sigh..
And look, things keep rolling along. Here, ten years after our "last summer of freedom." (Don had the Y2K basement too)
I would say in a Thoreau-ish way maybe, that I'm better off paying no attention to the news cycle which always repeats itself. People doing stupid aggressive things in the name of greed - murder as sport.
It's just depressing. I have zero, nada, zilch control over all that, and neither do you if I may be so bold (once again, not to diminish your good work but it has no, or little, impact.. sorry).
We are out here spinning 'round and 'round on a fairly huge ball of rock somewhere in the midst of infinity. Is there a "god?" I sure hope, but have my doubts- although I have my own views on those things which I have in fact written about at my blog.
Look at my kids' piece from Monday. He's full of life and celebrating it every day. At 53, I can honestly say the same. I control what I can, but/and- adhere somewhat I suppose to what someone once called "the virtue of selfishness."
If I don't take care of me, then who will? I'm no good to others (like my son) if I'm not, myself, ok.
I could go on but am aware I'm mostly talking to my (ever so important.. ha) self.
Keep fighting the good fight I guess, if it makes you happy. Maybe it does.
Are you surprised? I am not. Yet, our media won't touch this with broom. R
This literally has to be the single most idiotic fear-mongering report I have ever read since joining the service. In 12 months of being exposed to thousands upon thousands of other servicemembers, visiting many cities that can clearly be defined as having a "military" culture, and living under 5 different commands on 8 different bases, I have never seen or heard anything remotely indicating that this kind of activity takes place. Diversity among senior leadership and their subordinates is aplenty, and any activity that could be identified as infringing upon people's equal opportunity rights would immediately and professionally be caught and dealt with.
So many resources exist for preventing and responding to equal opportunity violations, it creates an atmosphere where this kind of thing is completely non-permissible.
The scout snipers got picked to be scout snipers because they were outstanding Marines and performed well above the prescribed benchmarks for infantry personnel. If there were any racist or fascist connotations to what they were doing, it wouldn't have happened. Period.
Find something else to bite your nails about. The military screens for associations to hate-related groups, to express or harbor racial sentiments in the military simply isn't conducive to your job, or service in general.
So many resources exist for preventing and responding to equal opportunity violations, it creates an atmosphere where this kind of thing is completely non-permissible.
The scout snipers got picked to be scout snipers because they were outstanding Marines and performed well above the prescribed benchmarks for infantry personnel. If there were any racist or fascist connotations to what they were doing, it wouldn't have happened. Period.
Find something else to bite your nails about. The military screens for associations to hate-related groups, to express or harbor racial sentiments in the military simply isn't conducive to your job, or service in general.
Eek... the last comment must have actually been TR IG's SON.
Weren't Dad, although I love it.
Weren't Dad, although I love it.
Oh, next time snip the snips and just copy over everything.
I know nothing about what goes on in the military except the reports of the general agendas of US military activities and the massive collateral damage that accompanies all of them I have read about.
Since the activities invariably involve lots of killing under orders, I sincerely doubt much attention is made to the feelings and beliefs of the soldiers involved. It is obvious from the huge numbers of soldiers suffering from psychological damage to the point of committing suicide that many do have conflicting internal feelings. There seems to be a general blood lust in fascist minded soldiers that might fit them more comfortably into military life.
Since the activities invariably involve lots of killing under orders, I sincerely doubt much attention is made to the feelings and beliefs of the soldiers involved. It is obvious from the huge numbers of soldiers suffering from psychological damage to the point of committing suicide that many do have conflicting internal feelings. There seems to be a general blood lust in fascist minded soldiers that might fit them more comfortably into military life.
I made my comment into a post, and copied Eli's comment there so do feel free to delete.
Not that you needed my permission.
Good night..
Not that you needed my permission.
Good night..
If the US Government doesn't address the problem by cutting back foreign involvement, which it probably won't, the alternative for better representation in the military is to reinstitute the Draft. Do you favor that?
"I know nothing about what goes on in the military"
Hey, you said it yourself. I applaud you for that disclaimer.
"I sincerely doubt much attention is made to the feelings and beliefs of the soldiers involved."
There is so much attention given to the subject of suicide, PTSD, emotional stress, and "bringing the fight back with you", even showing the warning signs of depression or suicidal sentiments will immediately be met with the help and care that these people deserve. You have to also account that the glaring majority of occupations in the military aren't combat related. While you can find information systems technicians or admin clerks deployed, the most common stressors in military life are related to home, and holding together a relationship while thousands of miles away for 7-14 months.
Maybe articles such as "US Armed Forces Heart Neo-Nazis as Troops?" might sow some "conflicting internal feelings". You probably wouldn't know if you haven't served, however.
Hey, you said it yourself. I applaud you for that disclaimer.
"I sincerely doubt much attention is made to the feelings and beliefs of the soldiers involved."
There is so much attention given to the subject of suicide, PTSD, emotional stress, and "bringing the fight back with you", even showing the warning signs of depression or suicidal sentiments will immediately be met with the help and care that these people deserve. You have to also account that the glaring majority of occupations in the military aren't combat related. While you can find information systems technicians or admin clerks deployed, the most common stressors in military life are related to home, and holding together a relationship while thousands of miles away for 7-14 months.
Maybe articles such as "US Armed Forces Heart Neo-Nazis as Troops?" might sow some "conflicting internal feelings". You probably wouldn't know if you haven't served, however.
@
tr ig's son
I served in WWII, but it was a different world although there was no dearth of atrocities.
You are correct in that there is activity in psychological aid but if you are paying attention to the news about veterans and people doing double and triple activity in conflict zones you wouldn't be so happy about their effectiveness. The huge suicide rates say it all.
tr ig's son
I served in WWII, but it was a different world although there was no dearth of atrocities.
You are correct in that there is activity in psychological aid but if you are paying attention to the news about veterans and people doing double and triple activity in conflict zones you wouldn't be so happy about their effectiveness. The huge suicide rates say it all.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/09/military-families-pentagon-ptsd-suicide_n_1503746.html
Take a look and inform yourself.
Take a look and inform yourself.
I wasn't arguing that the problem is nonexistent, I was trying to point out that its not caused by a lack of interest in keeping troops safe or healthy.
There are lots of people interested in all sorts of things. Implementing the proper interests effectively seems to be the problem.
As long as decent jobs are hard to find, there will always be more than enough volunteers to fill the ranks. The Vietnam War was a game changer in many ways. The Pentagon figured out that they could continue to wage unpopular wars if they got rid of the Draft.
Which makes me wonder if the lack of updating the minimum wage to match inflation and exporting jobs to Asia isn't part of the program for the armaments industry to maintain a continuous state of war to enrich the industry and divert federal funds away for caring for the sick, for depriving the eduction system, for letting national infrastructure slide into third world conditions and making people desperate to stay secure and well fed and care for their children.
Donegal, not sure i have my comment capacity back but will try.
Thanks for confirming this alarming development. i had heard scary things about a religiously crusading air force that made non-fundamentalist Christians scapegoated, but the neo-Nazis issue if very disturbing -- them scattered throughout all services. The ideal fighting anti-feeling, no, hating, soldier who wants to learn weaponry for ulterior motives. Talk about potential unintended consequences which shouldn't be all that hard to figure out! Talk about the consequences with them in the service in foreign countries before getting out, even. Fort Carson is it has had a series of homicides from returning vets who don't know how to turn the killing off apparently, and who are burning with hate and xenophobia after naturally (or unnaturally) paranoia-inducing war and revolving door deployments! Instead of getting rewarded for killing now, they are being thrown into prison for life! Some of these soldiers were given psychotropic drugs, also, to keep the functioning on their deployments. Now there are so many green on blue killings in Aghanistan, those we are trying to train after a decade are turning on and killing our soldiers. And suicides among soldiers are double what they are for their parallel civilian age group. Something is very wrong with our military and ignoring and covering up and lying about it is not dealing with it. best, libby
Thanks for confirming this alarming development. i had heard scary things about a religiously crusading air force that made non-fundamentalist Christians scapegoated, but the neo-Nazis issue if very disturbing -- them scattered throughout all services. The ideal fighting anti-feeling, no, hating, soldier who wants to learn weaponry for ulterior motives. Talk about potential unintended consequences which shouldn't be all that hard to figure out! Talk about the consequences with them in the service in foreign countries before getting out, even. Fort Carson is it has had a series of homicides from returning vets who don't know how to turn the killing off apparently, and who are burning with hate and xenophobia after naturally (or unnaturally) paranoia-inducing war and revolving door deployments! Instead of getting rewarded for killing now, they are being thrown into prison for life! Some of these soldiers were given psychotropic drugs, also, to keep the functioning on their deployments. Now there are so many green on blue killings in Aghanistan, those we are trying to train after a decade are turning on and killing our soldiers. And suicides among soldiers are double what they are for their parallel civilian age group. Something is very wrong with our military and ignoring and covering up and lying about it is not dealing with it. best, libby
@K O
Which one of us are you trying to censor?
Which one of us are you trying to censor?
Thanks so much for commenting Deborah! We can only imagine how bad it must be for it FINALLY to begin to get attention! I am sorry your brother was condescended to like that.
They say we are spending $1 million a year for each troop. Someone wrote a blog on another website asking where that money is going for the troops because it is sure not going TO them! It is once again going to the corporate vendors of war, the opportunistic carpetbaggers! And the corporations who want power and resources over other countries.
Unbelievable how the corporate media cons us all that we want a macho-Prez tough on terrorism when we are the biggest terrorists in the world! And we could be a catalyst for peace. That ship sure has sailed.
best, libby
They say we are spending $1 million a year for each troop. Someone wrote a blog on another website asking where that money is going for the troops because it is sure not going TO them! It is once again going to the corporate vendors of war, the opportunistic carpetbaggers! And the corporations who want power and resources over other countries.
Unbelievable how the corporate media cons us all that we want a macho-Prez tough on terrorism when we are the biggest terrorists in the world! And we could be a catalyst for peace. That ship sure has sailed.
best, libby
inthisdeepcalm, thanks for commenting. yes, in one of my updates above, that Kennard reveals that to highlight this problem in the military if you are in the military brings whistleblower punishment down on your head. And with a corporate media that doesn't make waves readily, this info is long in coming.
Yes, the rapes against women in the military are also alarming and a big secret. Lack of accountability increases their likelihood. Talk about moral waivers. Seems "moral waivers" are being passed out for too many things by this administration, financially and militarily!
The issues with our own city police. I may do a blog about the military-type take no prisoners DEADLY FORCE our cops are using on our own streets more and more particularly on mentally unstable or drunken or high "perpetrators" who may be wielding a knife or acting menacing and are hunted down by a bevy of police and riddled with bullets TO DEATH when there were alternate ways, way alternate ways, of apprehension.
I just read about a street entertainer on 7th Ave. in NYC who was chased by the cops for 7 blocks and killed. They were after him for having a joint, apparently. He pulled out a knife and was acting crazy and he was surrounded by a bunch of cops who shot 15 rounds from their military assault weapons and killed him.
Tourists in the neighborhood chose to flee or to take pics on their cell phones it was so stunning. WTF? The commissioner and Bloomberg backed the cops and Bloomberg acknowledged guy was probably deranged. SO YOU KILL HIM? Life sure is cheap in a police state!!!
embedded evil is the right expression! best, libby
Yes, the rapes against women in the military are also alarming and a big secret. Lack of accountability increases their likelihood. Talk about moral waivers. Seems "moral waivers" are being passed out for too many things by this administration, financially and militarily!
The issues with our own city police. I may do a blog about the military-type take no prisoners DEADLY FORCE our cops are using on our own streets more and more particularly on mentally unstable or drunken or high "perpetrators" who may be wielding a knife or acting menacing and are hunted down by a bevy of police and riddled with bullets TO DEATH when there were alternate ways, way alternate ways, of apprehension.
I just read about a street entertainer on 7th Ave. in NYC who was chased by the cops for 7 blocks and killed. They were after him for having a joint, apparently. He pulled out a knife and was acting crazy and he was surrounded by a bunch of cops who shot 15 rounds from their military assault weapons and killed him.
Tourists in the neighborhood chose to flee or to take pics on their cell phones it was so stunning. WTF? The commissioner and Bloomberg backed the cops and Bloomberg acknowledged guy was probably deranged. SO YOU KILL HIM? Life sure is cheap in a police state!!!
embedded evil is the right expression! best, libby
trig, different strokes. live and let live.
I hear what the "alarming reality" being buried is and I want to spread the truth about it. I believe that if more and more people know the real truth they could access more empathy and conscience about their fellow human beings who are domestically or internationally being devastated because of our government's amoral shenanigans.
I believe there can be a paradigm shift from a partriarchal anti-feeling society of power, control, competition, greed to a humanist one of partnership, cooperation and empathy. Green Party Jill Stein has a slogan, Peace, People and Planet.
I think our society has become hyper-masculinized and is becoming more and more intolerant and anti-feeling. Since corporations as legal people have the personality profile of psychopaths, ruthless self-interest behavior only, that psychopathic prioritizing has infected our government now that it has been corporate-captured.
Thanks for comment.
I hear what the "alarming reality" being buried is and I want to spread the truth about it. I believe that if more and more people know the real truth they could access more empathy and conscience about their fellow human beings who are domestically or internationally being devastated because of our government's amoral shenanigans.
I believe there can be a paradigm shift from a partriarchal anti-feeling society of power, control, competition, greed to a humanist one of partnership, cooperation and empathy. Green Party Jill Stein has a slogan, Peace, People and Planet.
I think our society has become hyper-masculinized and is becoming more and more intolerant and anti-feeling. Since corporations as legal people have the personality profile of psychopaths, ruthless self-interest behavior only, that psychopathic prioritizing has infected our government now that it has been corporate-captured.
Thanks for comment.
Thoth, I am not surprised but disturbed by it. The morale of the neo-Nazis of course is higher than soldiers of conscience and more in line as said above with imperialist goals! Drones and neo-Nazis seem to be the craven way to go?
thanks for commenting, my friend! best, libby
thanks for commenting, my friend! best, libby
trig's son: I don't appreciate my blog being called idiotic but I am glad to hear you have not been exposed to neo-Nazis in your experiences this past year.
this issue is getting serious mention suddenly, though. I remember years ago the NYT did a big story while Bush was in WH. I would be interested in hearing anything you might hear in future about it. Even about some bases with high violent crimes like Fort Carson.
When vets flip out like the guy at the Sikh Temple, the "a few bad apples" defense is often used but this sounds like more than a few bad apples, the numbers they are talking about. This sounds like an enabled M.O. The "don't ask, don't tell" policy about right wing organization membership being given a pass as said above.
Also, multiple deployments, of being a target of foreign people so many years, has got to induce racism in some who didn't probably start out that way.
Also the administration giving moral waivers for ex-convicts and members of violent gangs to join up is troubling.
thanks for commenting.
this issue is getting serious mention suddenly, though. I remember years ago the NYT did a big story while Bush was in WH. I would be interested in hearing anything you might hear in future about it. Even about some bases with high violent crimes like Fort Carson.
When vets flip out like the guy at the Sikh Temple, the "a few bad apples" defense is often used but this sounds like more than a few bad apples, the numbers they are talking about. This sounds like an enabled M.O. The "don't ask, don't tell" policy about right wing organization membership being given a pass as said above.
Also, multiple deployments, of being a target of foreign people so many years, has got to induce racism in some who didn't probably start out that way.
Also the administration giving moral waivers for ex-convicts and members of violent gangs to join up is troubling.
thanks for commenting.
Jan, I agree. I think basic training is to reduce a sense of individualism in soldiers, but I think the PTSD and the suicides indicate how overwhelming the horror many are placed in is and the amorality of what they are being made to do. The neo-Nazis are motivated to kill foreign peoples out of their white supremacy zealotry. A dysfunctional military effectively uses dysfunctional people. Tragic and ironic. best, libby
kosher, i think the draft is necessary to make it so even the one percenters kids have to serve. i think when that happens, there will be more reluctance of the deciders to send kids to war when some of them will actually be their kids. even when the lottery was established during the vietnam war years, those with higher numbers became less passionate about fighting for peace once they realized they would be safe. It was a savvy idea of the administration to do that.
US govt. is also trying to train foreign people like in Africa to become our mercenaries. That is disgusting. Perpetual war spreading all over the globe thanks to bloody imperialism.
best, libby
US govt. is also trying to train foreign people like in Africa to become our mercenaries. That is disgusting. Perpetual war spreading all over the globe thanks to bloody imperialism.
best, libby
thanks, littlewillie! I agree. with so many jobs outsourced and gone, kind of economic blackmail that young people will be driven to enter the service for financial survival! Homeland security budget booming, also, while everywhere else jobless faux-recovery happening.
Kate, great to see you and thanks for stopping by! hope all is well.
Yes, I was reading about how there is more surveillance of soldiers in terms of the internet since this neo-Nazi phenomenon involves internet communication and recruitment. H*ll, we are all being monitored more and more thanks to super surveillance police statehood.
best, libby xxx
Yes, I was reading about how there is more surveillance of soldiers in terms of the internet since this neo-Nazi phenomenon involves internet communication and recruitment. H*ll, we are all being monitored more and more thanks to super surveillance police statehood.
best, libby xxx
One of reasons for the influx of white supremacists in the post 9-11 armed forces is our desire/need for retribution. The attack on the twin towers and Pentagon by Al Qaeda enraged the overwhelming majority of Americans but vindicated the misguided prejudice of fundamentalist "Christians" and racists of all stripes. Combined with the recessions that followed in the wake of 2001, this put a lot of small town Americans in the position of enlisting in the Armed Forces or joining the National Guard or Reserves to gain employment, benefits and training.
If you look at the 6000 + KIA lists from Iraq and Afghanistan, a disproportionate 70% of the hometowns of these soldiers come from towns with less than 40,000 people. We've engaged in over ten years of war in two countries with armed forces from small town America where there has been little or no real social change since the 1960's... Jim Crow is alive and well in parts of the West and South as well as rural counties of the MidWest. Demographically it's no surprise to anyone that the desperate, fear driven racism of skinheads and other white supremacists is spreading throughout combat units in the US Armed Forces.
If you look at the 6000 + KIA lists from Iraq and Afghanistan, a disproportionate 70% of the hometowns of these soldiers come from towns with less than 40,000 people. We've engaged in over ten years of war in two countries with armed forces from small town America where there has been little or no real social change since the 1960's... Jim Crow is alive and well in parts of the West and South as well as rural counties of the MidWest. Demographically it's no surprise to anyone that the desperate, fear driven racism of skinheads and other white supremacists is spreading throughout combat units in the US Armed Forces.
"For a solider, you gotta a lot of time on your hands. Keep in mind soldier, your CO can and will read your blog. So just in case you are NOT writing some shit here, you better have your story straight as to who you really are and what you really said (you know, all the stuff that hasn't been deleted, that stuff)"
K O
AUGUST 22, 2012 06:54 AM
_________________________________________
Who do you suppose Eli "really is" Kate, you loon?
His full name, rank, and mailing address is posted at my blog. I'm pretty sure his story is straight. Also, pretty sure that he has time off to read, write, hang out off base (in town or exploring/swimming etc.), or whatever else he chooses to do.
As to his CO reading what he writes... what is it he has written that should he have not said I wonder??? Seems to me he, above, spoke very highly of his "employer."
And, if he didn't?
What ya gonna do KO, do your dead level best to get him in some kind of trouble for carrying my genes? Give it your best shot.
Sure, knock yourself out but he does his job and does it well.
What a seemingly sad and vengeful woman you are..
Bite me, tr ig's son's Dad
Libby, your response(s) read and noted. Thanks
K O
AUGUST 22, 2012 06:54 AM
_________________________________________
Who do you suppose Eli "really is" Kate, you loon?
His full name, rank, and mailing address is posted at my blog. I'm pretty sure his story is straight. Also, pretty sure that he has time off to read, write, hang out off base (in town or exploring/swimming etc.), or whatever else he chooses to do.
As to his CO reading what he writes... what is it he has written that should he have not said I wonder??? Seems to me he, above, spoke very highly of his "employer."
And, if he didn't?
What ya gonna do KO, do your dead level best to get him in some kind of trouble for carrying my genes? Give it your best shot.
Sure, knock yourself out but he does his job and does it well.
What a seemingly sad and vengeful woman you are..
Bite me, tr ig's son's Dad
Libby, your response(s) read and noted. Thanks
Throwing about "Nazi" this casually demeans the victime of actual Nazis.
I think tr ig is on his period.
"I don't appreciate my blog being called idiotic"
Well gee, Libby... I'd guess you wouldn't. Doesn't mean it's not true though.
As for your and Jan's condescending, rude and insulting comments to Trig's Son, may I point out the following:
1. He is THERE and has on site experience and CURRENT knowledge. To imply that he needs to do more research is ridiculous. He's living it and you two are reading and propagandizing about it. Guess which one has more validity.
2. I find it interesting how you chose to attack the military, which you revile, but gave a COMPLETE pass to the most likely cause, here on OS anyways. There are posters here who foment anti-arab and anti-Muslim hate on a daily basis. As you might be aware MANY people mistake the Sikh as being Arab / Muslim. Why the free pass for the haters her on OS? Could it be because they have supported your hypocrisy?
Well gee, Libby... I'd guess you wouldn't. Doesn't mean it's not true though.
As for your and Jan's condescending, rude and insulting comments to Trig's Son, may I point out the following:
1. He is THERE and has on site experience and CURRENT knowledge. To imply that he needs to do more research is ridiculous. He's living it and you two are reading and propagandizing about it. Guess which one has more validity.
2. I find it interesting how you chose to attack the military, which you revile, but gave a COMPLETE pass to the most likely cause, here on OS anyways. There are posters here who foment anti-arab and anti-Muslim hate on a daily basis. As you might be aware MANY people mistake the Sikh as being Arab / Muslim. Why the free pass for the haters her on OS? Could it be because they have supported your hypocrisy?
You are all arguing over another psyops by the government, still letting a main stream media that no longer has the slightest credibility with the people in this country who count, the ones with the guns, lead you like pigs to the slaughter house. There are many good people on OS. My suggestion to them is they take a break from OS and take a look at what the rest of America is seeing. And I am not talking about the vindictive eighty year old audience of FOX either, leave them to their Paul Ryan posters.
A day or two after any kind of an event like this and the MSM is useless. The event has already been spun, washed, and hung out to dry! Many witness’s to the Sikh temple shooting said there were four shooters all dressed in black immediately after the shooting. Just like many witness’s attested that there were multiple shooters in Aurora.The first thing the police look for is motive. Are you all oblivious to the fact that Clinton and Obama are conspiring with the UN to disarm America’s heartland?
Learn to read between the lines or everything you say is just so much bleating soon to be replaced by “the silence of the lambs.”
Immediately after the event: from AFP the oldest news agency in the world:
“US investigators were hunting for answers on Monday after a former psy-ops soldier attacked at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin and killed six people before he was shot dead by police.
Officials identified the slain suspect as Wade Michael Page, a 40-year-old white male formerly attached to the US Army base in Fort Bragg, North Carolina as a “psychological operations specialist.”
Page served between April 1992 and October 1998, and was a qualified parachutist who received two good conduct awards and a National Defense Service Medal but never won significant promotion.
FBI agents and local police were investigating Page’s supposed address in Cudahy, a suburb of Milwaukee just four kilometers (2.5 miles) north of the suburban Sikh temple that was targeted in Sunday’s attack.”
First of all the guy was “psy-ops soldier” soldier from the get go. Ever heard of MKULTRA? Well you should have. If you have not then you are groping around in the dark. No promotions? Well of course not you don’t promote a human bomb to a position of power. You don’t want it anywhere near you when you set it off. The two words “supposed address” should tell you that among the many good people still left in the FBI the address is questionable. Biggest goof of all (they are not to bright, the Joker?) shooting up a Sikh temple. This was done to garner sympathy but you are going to tell me an intelligence soldier does not know the difference between a Muslim and an offshoot of the Hindu religion that was specifically founded to wage war upon the fanatical Muslim Pashtun?
And now this you call your fellow Americans NAZI’s because they are armed and not quite ready turn America over to the pirates who have seized it! Maybe if you went on their sites and tried reasoning with them, like I do, you could dispel much of the anti Semitic paranoia that has been inflicted on them by Free Mason psyops operatives like Jeff Rense (yes they are going to blame the Jew again if all go’s wrong) instead of banning them from your own web site.This kind of stuff is just going to make enemy's out of the people you are trying to cultivate. They are well aware of all the murder that has been perpetuated throughout the globe in the name of decent Americans and unlike you they are prepared to do something about it. That makes them NAZI’s? Well then call me a NAZI too! Wake up! We don’t have much time. Start reading Paul Craig Roberts ( architect of Reaganomics and most influential writer on the internet 3 years running). He is their intellectual leader and he puts anybody the left has to offer to shame in that department! His link is right on my site if you can’t find it along with a site that provides full documentation of just how the real NAZI’s the CIA have seized control of this country.
A day or two after any kind of an event like this and the MSM is useless. The event has already been spun, washed, and hung out to dry! Many witness’s to the Sikh temple shooting said there were four shooters all dressed in black immediately after the shooting. Just like many witness’s attested that there were multiple shooters in Aurora.The first thing the police look for is motive. Are you all oblivious to the fact that Clinton and Obama are conspiring with the UN to disarm America’s heartland?
Learn to read between the lines or everything you say is just so much bleating soon to be replaced by “the silence of the lambs.”
Immediately after the event: from AFP the oldest news agency in the world:
“US investigators were hunting for answers on Monday after a former psy-ops soldier attacked at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin and killed six people before he was shot dead by police.
Officials identified the slain suspect as Wade Michael Page, a 40-year-old white male formerly attached to the US Army base in Fort Bragg, North Carolina as a “psychological operations specialist.”
Page served between April 1992 and October 1998, and was a qualified parachutist who received two good conduct awards and a National Defense Service Medal but never won significant promotion.
FBI agents and local police were investigating Page’s supposed address in Cudahy, a suburb of Milwaukee just four kilometers (2.5 miles) north of the suburban Sikh temple that was targeted in Sunday’s attack.”
First of all the guy was “psy-ops soldier” soldier from the get go. Ever heard of MKULTRA? Well you should have. If you have not then you are groping around in the dark. No promotions? Well of course not you don’t promote a human bomb to a position of power. You don’t want it anywhere near you when you set it off. The two words “supposed address” should tell you that among the many good people still left in the FBI the address is questionable. Biggest goof of all (they are not to bright, the Joker?) shooting up a Sikh temple. This was done to garner sympathy but you are going to tell me an intelligence soldier does not know the difference between a Muslim and an offshoot of the Hindu religion that was specifically founded to wage war upon the fanatical Muslim Pashtun?
And now this you call your fellow Americans NAZI’s because they are armed and not quite ready turn America over to the pirates who have seized it! Maybe if you went on their sites and tried reasoning with them, like I do, you could dispel much of the anti Semitic paranoia that has been inflicted on them by Free Mason psyops operatives like Jeff Rense (yes they are going to blame the Jew again if all go’s wrong) instead of banning them from your own web site.This kind of stuff is just going to make enemy's out of the people you are trying to cultivate. They are well aware of all the murder that has been perpetuated throughout the globe in the name of decent Americans and unlike you they are prepared to do something about it. That makes them NAZI’s? Well then call me a NAZI too! Wake up! We don’t have much time. Start reading Paul Craig Roberts ( architect of Reaganomics and most influential writer on the internet 3 years running). He is their intellectual leader and he puts anybody the left has to offer to shame in that department! His link is right on my site if you can’t find it along with a site that provides full documentation of just how the real NAZI’s the CIA have seized control of this country.
One related subject that is widely ignored is the upbringing that many of these Neo-Nazi's and many authoritarian military people go through is very similar. they're taught to obey orders and believe what they're told from the appropriate authority and to respond to emotional pleas.
This isn't always intentional; in fact they try to avoid this in many cases but the methods they use inevitably bring out these results. One of the clearest examples of this is the fact that many people in the military including Oliver North have been encouraged to use James Dobson's child rearing methods. this involves intimidating little children from an early age so that they believe what they're told and obey the appropriate authority without developing free thinking skills.
Thanks for pointing this out.
This isn't always intentional; in fact they try to avoid this in many cases but the methods they use inevitably bring out these results. One of the clearest examples of this is the fact that many people in the military including Oliver North have been encouraged to use James Dobson's child rearing methods. this involves intimidating little children from an early age so that they believe what they're told and obey the appropriate authority without developing free thinking skills.
Thanks for pointing this out.
@Amy: You're giving me a headache already with your braying. You should be supporting Libby not tearing her down. If you paid the slightest bit of attention to the news you'd know the US military has slaughtered more than 8 billion homos and lesbians in the last two years - the equivalent of the entire populaton of Luxembourg twice removed. Its ultimate goal is to take out Rachel Maddow and Anderson Cooper. That is the ONE and only goal of the US military industrial complex, Amy - to purge the universe of icky gay people. They didn't go after Osama because he was a terrorist - they went after him becasue he was gay.
This is what happens under an Arnold Schwarzenegger presidency. I love being able to say I told you so.
And how do you know tr ig's son is actually "there" and not "here" or "elsewhere" or "otherwise engaged." He probably downloaded those pictures for his blog post from google images; in fact they look suspiciously like places right here in my very own state of Ohio. You are really really dumb and gullible, even for a lesbian. For real.
This is what happens under an Arnold Schwarzenegger presidency. I love being able to say I told you so.
And how do you know tr ig's son is actually "there" and not "here" or "elsewhere" or "otherwise engaged." He probably downloaded those pictures for his blog post from google images; in fact they look suspiciously like places right here in my very own state of Ohio. You are really really dumb and gullible, even for a lesbian. For real.
Everything in this post makes me very uncomfortable, I'd like to think it's just not possible. But I am old, my memory goes back a long way and there is much wisdom in what koshersalaami wrote, there is too much I know. There is a huge demand and a dwindling supply. It's not like you can just place an order to replace the number of humans required without the draft. These wars would lose popularity with the middle class quickly if the draft was resumed.
There are only a limited number of people available to do the actual fighting, as has been noted here by an active duty member, as a huge number are in support positions. While there is certainly an effort to patch these people up and send them back into combat, the continual recycling of those in the fray is not going well, people in those positions are not endlessly reusable. Even with my friends who have grown children, not one is in the military, I have 17 first cousins and only 1 has a son in the military, my youngest has a huge social circle and only one is in the military. Less jobs and lower incomes is still not creating a large enough supply. Looking at the overall picture, even the public displays of gratitude and honoring those missing limbs and companies saying they'll hire veterans is not enough incentive to fill the need for new ones. At this point it's only enough to make those not affected feel better about those who are.
Though there are aid missions, there is a single overall purpose for the military. Without a constant supply of people willing, as well as physically and mentally able, to be on the ground in battle, it cannot fulfill it's purpose. Though it was decades ago that I was a Marine, I can't believe these people are the first pick of either officers or command. Units must function well as a team to maximize their effectiveness. Still, they have to do the best with what is available to accomplish their goals. There will continue to be suicides and single as well as mass homicides for many reasons because there are many reasons people join and many types of people. I'm sure we'll have more suicides and homicides for a multitude of reasons as the wars continue and we'll no doubt see more of this type the articles described.
I doubt we're near the tipping point in reference to people questioning anything the military has to do to keep fighting these wars. There are only about 1.5 million active duty members so the number of those personally affected is relatively small in proportion to the population. There was once the same attitude of disbelief about women being raped or harrassed and it took a long time for such disturbing news to be processed and acknowledged as an ongoing problem. Having said that, I'm grateful that you put the information forth because when we reach the tipping point it will be information that is familiar instead of sudden revelations. Again, I apologize on another post of yours, I'm sure my pragmatism about disturbing issues is frustrating but it's that or I'll go crazy thinking about all those who will suffer. All I am capable of is praying for those that will, and continue to support those who speak.
It's not as pleasant to disturb the comfortable as it is to comfort the disturbed. In my experience, you'll usually only be appreciated for the latter. As disturbing as I found it, thank you for the post.
There are only a limited number of people available to do the actual fighting, as has been noted here by an active duty member, as a huge number are in support positions. While there is certainly an effort to patch these people up and send them back into combat, the continual recycling of those in the fray is not going well, people in those positions are not endlessly reusable. Even with my friends who have grown children, not one is in the military, I have 17 first cousins and only 1 has a son in the military, my youngest has a huge social circle and only one is in the military. Less jobs and lower incomes is still not creating a large enough supply. Looking at the overall picture, even the public displays of gratitude and honoring those missing limbs and companies saying they'll hire veterans is not enough incentive to fill the need for new ones. At this point it's only enough to make those not affected feel better about those who are.
Though there are aid missions, there is a single overall purpose for the military. Without a constant supply of people willing, as well as physically and mentally able, to be on the ground in battle, it cannot fulfill it's purpose. Though it was decades ago that I was a Marine, I can't believe these people are the first pick of either officers or command. Units must function well as a team to maximize their effectiveness. Still, they have to do the best with what is available to accomplish their goals. There will continue to be suicides and single as well as mass homicides for many reasons because there are many reasons people join and many types of people. I'm sure we'll have more suicides and homicides for a multitude of reasons as the wars continue and we'll no doubt see more of this type the articles described.
I doubt we're near the tipping point in reference to people questioning anything the military has to do to keep fighting these wars. There are only about 1.5 million active duty members so the number of those personally affected is relatively small in proportion to the population. There was once the same attitude of disbelief about women being raped or harrassed and it took a long time for such disturbing news to be processed and acknowledged as an ongoing problem. Having said that, I'm grateful that you put the information forth because when we reach the tipping point it will be information that is familiar instead of sudden revelations. Again, I apologize on another post of yours, I'm sure my pragmatism about disturbing issues is frustrating but it's that or I'll go crazy thinking about all those who will suffer. All I am capable of is praying for those that will, and continue to support those who speak.
It's not as pleasant to disturb the comfortable as it is to comfort the disturbed. In my experience, you'll usually only be appreciated for the latter. As disturbing as I found it, thank you for the post.
Since the point of my comment was that the average soldier was being misused in wars that were more or less for the control of oil and resources and the projects are obvious failures by politicians and administrators and succeed only in establishing regimes infested with thugs and crooks of all kind that are robbing the USA blind, how am I being condescending? Do you approve of these brutal endless unsuccessful military adventures?
Libby,
Thank you. You didn't take the easy way out. I respect that.
Thank you. You didn't take the easy way out. I respect that.
Libby,
This title and this post misunderstand and misstates the issue of recruits with connections to extremists organizations.
First, so that it is completely clear, I think including them in recruitment is a problem. I have written about it in the past. I think you did cover the reason why. The country was trying to conduct two wars, and they were essentially scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to maintain the force numbers that they wanted. Rather than a draft, they resorted to various means, among which was to lower the standard for recruit's personal histories.
Doing so does not mean that they like or as you put it "heart neo-nazis as troops." I think that is quite certainly not the case. They have taken a calculated risk. It is a bad risk. I disagree with the many moves that they have taken, including the war that became the need for this lowering of standards. That is not the same as seeking to fill the ranks with people who are actually Neo Nazis, or whatever.
Kids get into all sorts of trouble. Some of it is stuff they they fully intend, and will continue for the rest of their lives, whether long or short. And some of it is just being in the wrong place ant the wrong time. There are also many gradations in between. Sometimes these troubled youth turn out to be successful adults. Sometimes they turn out to be nuts. It is not always clear how a person's life will turn out from a snapshot taken in their youth.
If you were to make a ven diagram of the multiple demographic groups, and all of their youthful scrapes and indiscretions, and the center of the diagram would likely be W.A.S.P.s who played little league, become Eagle Scouts, get better than average grades, have no tattoos and get regular haircuts, volunteer in community organizations, live in medium sized cities or suburbs, and attend Yale University. This is essentially the C.I.A. recruitment demo. That sort of thing served for several decades, but this country is quickly outgrowing it, and it required an oppressive society to maintain this particular structure.
Opening society to those outside of this demois both necessary, and has unintended consequences. The presence of individuals from organizations like Nazi groups or KKK, or whatever is the bottom rung of the search for manpower/person power/bodies. Again, this is not an endorsement of the war, of war in general, or of these groups, but it is to say that it is a numbers game, and most importantly the mistakes are not representative of the people who populate the various services.
You made reference that basic training is a process to remove individuality from the individual. This is more false than it is true. There is some truth to it, but it has to do with being capable of functioning as a unit, not the sort of brainwashing that is implied. It is also not unique among other things in our culture. There are countless things that have been inculcated within you and every other American civilian which are done to promote order, and could just as easily be called "removing individuality." Pulling to the side of a road when you hear a siren is one of those things. Walking out of a building when an alarm goes off rather than running is another. Lining up at a store counter rather than pushing to the front is one behavior which is relatively rare in other cultures, but seen as a practice which supports fairness, and keeps order here. The societal forces which inculcate these things, and so many others like them, could be said to "remove individuality", but there is no real stigma to them. Likewise, the more specific training for military personnel is important and necessary. It is not sinister. And it does not remove individuality. I am a former Marine. We were big on military discipline. I assure you that personhood remains within the Corps, and after. I can't stand to surrender my individuality. It is part of the reason that I post in my actual name. I refuse to separate my assertions from my identity. Many consider it to be a necessity to protect their identity. I get that. The fact that some do does not make it necesasary that I do. Just like the fact that some have does not make them criminal or dysfunctional. Some consideration is appropriate there. The military has cast a wider net. They decided for their reasons that they include more with criminal backgrounds, and questionable asociations than they have previously. It is a calculated risk. I think it is a bad risk, and not worth takin, but it is not determinative.
This title and this post misunderstand and misstates the issue of recruits with connections to extremists organizations.
First, so that it is completely clear, I think including them in recruitment is a problem. I have written about it in the past. I think you did cover the reason why. The country was trying to conduct two wars, and they were essentially scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to maintain the force numbers that they wanted. Rather than a draft, they resorted to various means, among which was to lower the standard for recruit's personal histories.
Doing so does not mean that they like or as you put it "heart neo-nazis as troops." I think that is quite certainly not the case. They have taken a calculated risk. It is a bad risk. I disagree with the many moves that they have taken, including the war that became the need for this lowering of standards. That is not the same as seeking to fill the ranks with people who are actually Neo Nazis, or whatever.
Kids get into all sorts of trouble. Some of it is stuff they they fully intend, and will continue for the rest of their lives, whether long or short. And some of it is just being in the wrong place ant the wrong time. There are also many gradations in between. Sometimes these troubled youth turn out to be successful adults. Sometimes they turn out to be nuts. It is not always clear how a person's life will turn out from a snapshot taken in their youth.
If you were to make a ven diagram of the multiple demographic groups, and all of their youthful scrapes and indiscretions, and the center of the diagram would likely be W.A.S.P.s who played little league, become Eagle Scouts, get better than average grades, have no tattoos and get regular haircuts, volunteer in community organizations, live in medium sized cities or suburbs, and attend Yale University. This is essentially the C.I.A. recruitment demo. That sort of thing served for several decades, but this country is quickly outgrowing it, and it required an oppressive society to maintain this particular structure.
Opening society to those outside of this demois both necessary, and has unintended consequences. The presence of individuals from organizations like Nazi groups or KKK, or whatever is the bottom rung of the search for manpower/person power/bodies. Again, this is not an endorsement of the war, of war in general, or of these groups, but it is to say that it is a numbers game, and most importantly the mistakes are not representative of the people who populate the various services.
You made reference that basic training is a process to remove individuality from the individual. This is more false than it is true. There is some truth to it, but it has to do with being capable of functioning as a unit, not the sort of brainwashing that is implied. It is also not unique among other things in our culture. There are countless things that have been inculcated within you and every other American civilian which are done to promote order, and could just as easily be called "removing individuality." Pulling to the side of a road when you hear a siren is one of those things. Walking out of a building when an alarm goes off rather than running is another. Lining up at a store counter rather than pushing to the front is one behavior which is relatively rare in other cultures, but seen as a practice which supports fairness, and keeps order here. The societal forces which inculcate these things, and so many others like them, could be said to "remove individuality", but there is no real stigma to them. Likewise, the more specific training for military personnel is important and necessary. It is not sinister. And it does not remove individuality. I am a former Marine. We were big on military discipline. I assure you that personhood remains within the Corps, and after. I can't stand to surrender my individuality. It is part of the reason that I post in my actual name. I refuse to separate my assertions from my identity. Many consider it to be a necessity to protect their identity. I get that. The fact that some do does not make it necesasary that I do. Just like the fact that some have does not make them criminal or dysfunctional. Some consideration is appropriate there. The military has cast a wider net. They decided for their reasons that they include more with criminal backgrounds, and questionable asociations than they have previously. It is a calculated risk. I think it is a bad risk, and not worth takin, but it is not determinative.
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