So, the chronically conscience-deprived “Obama bubble people” and the new club of morality sell-outs, the “I held my nose but was proud to have voted for Obama” group, have put another nail in the coffin of American democracy by backing the man whom Glen Ford of Black Agenda Report has savvily labeled the “more effective evil”.
This coalition of willfully naive Democrats have secured for Obama four more years of profound executive power -- not only legitimate but the illegitimate power Obama has already begun vastly amassing for himself -- to finish off the democracy he and his corporate overlords have achieved such progress already in destroying.
The obtuse majority of the American people have given further opportunities for the faux-amiable Barack and the corporate-captured Democratic Party to stab us Americans in the collective back, and the next knife-plunge is coming solidly and deeply and soon.
This will be done with a WHAT SHOULD BY NOW BE FAMILIAR BUT IS NOT colossal degree of Obama and Democratic Party “razzle dazzle” a/k/a OFF THE CHARTS HYPOCRITICAL BULLSHIT.
Fool you and me once, don’t blame us. Fool us an infinite number of times?
Don’t blame Glenn Greenwald.
In fact, for anyone left willing to heed Greenwald, he published recently the Obama/Dem “LHHIT” -- “LOOK HOW HARD I AM TRYING!” -- chapter of the “Devastation of the Middle and Working Classes of America Led by Mendacious Dems” playbook.
Glenn Greenwald addresses Obama’s so-called “Grand Bargain” with the GOP. Greenwald’s concise call out of said “bargain”:
“... a deficit- and debt-cutting agreement whereby the GOP agrees to some very modest tax increases on the rich in exchange for substantial cuts to entitlement programs such as social security and Medicare, the crown legislative jewels of American liberalism.”
In fact, Greenwald points out that Obama had intended to desecrate Social Security and Medicare from the get-go but was frustrated, ironically, not by empathetic for the real plight of Americans Dem politicians (are there any left -- seriously?) but by the GOP itself and its, in Greenwald’s words, “recalcitrance to compromise on taxes”.
With Obama’s rancid win, the Repubs are forced to be at least a tad more flexible -- flexible enough to let Obama one more time betray his zombied constitutents -- and those of us trapped within their numbers -- and serve both the Dem and Republican Parties’ mutual corporate overlords. (Who was it who declared, “America doesn’t need a third party. It needs a SECOND party!”?)
Greenwald assures us this will happen SOON, the “grand bargain”. The pre-lim propaganda for it has already been launched by Obama a/k/a the American Judas.
Nobody slides a knife in the back as surgically and critically as the faux-amiable Obama, especially when he has help from his “pragmatic” -- and freshly high on the 2012 election win -- faux-progressive fellow Democratic bullshit artists.
Glenn Greenwald’s summary of how to gut Social Security and Medicare in six easy and what should be transparent by now lessons:
STEP ONE: Liberals will declare that cutting social security and Medicare benefits – including raising the eligibility age or introducing "means-testing" – are absolutely unacceptable, that they will never support any bill that does so no matter what other provisions it contains, that they will wage war on Democrats if they try.
STEP TWO: As the deal gets negotiated and takes shape, progressive pundits in Washington, with Obama officials persuasively whispering in their ear, will begin to argue that the proposed cuts are really not that bad, that they are modest and acceptable, that they are even necessary to save the programs from greater cuts or even dismantlement.
STEP THREE: Many progressives – ones who are not persuaded that these cuts are less than draconian or defensible on the merits – will nonetheless begin to view them with resignation and acquiescence on pragmatic grounds. Obama has no real choice, they will insist, because he must reach a deal with the crazy, evil GOP to save the economy from crippling harm, and the only way he can do so is by agreeing to entitlement cuts. It is a pragmatic necessity, they will insist, and anyone who refuses to support it is being a purist, unreasonably blind to political realities, recklessly willing to blow up Obama's second term before it even begins.
STEP FOUR: The few liberal holdouts, who continue to vehemently oppose any bill that cuts social security and Medicare, will be isolated and marginalized, excluded from the key meetings where these matters are being negotiated, confined to a few MSNBC appearances where they explain their inconsequential opposition.
STEP FIVE: Once a deal is announced, and everyone from Obama to Harry Reid and the DNC are behind it, any progressives still vocally angry about it and insisting on its defeat will be castigated as ideologues and purists, compared to the Tea Party for their refusal to compromise, and scorned (by compliant progressives) as fringe Far Left malcontents.
STEP SIX: Once the deal is enacted with bipartisan support and Obama signs it in a ceremony, standing in front of his new Treasury Secretary, the supreme corporatist Erskine Bowles, where he touts the virtues of bipartisanship and making "tough choices", any progressives still complaining will be told that it is time to move on. Any who do not will be constantly reminded that there is an Extremely Important Election coming – the 2014 midterm – where it will be Absolutely Vital that Democrats hold onto the Senate and that they take over the House. Any progressive, still infuriated by cuts to social security and Medicare, who still refuses to get meekly in line behind the Party will be told that they are jeopardizing the Party's chances for winning that Vital Election and – as a result of their opposition - are helping Mitch McConnell take over control of the Senate and John Boehner retain control of the House.
And so it goes.
AND SO IT GOES! “It” being our democracy -- “goes” meaning GONE!
Hello, FASCISM! But with Obama as leader how could it seriously hurt?
Let’s lift our glasses of kool-aid and drink to the catalysts of our, our foreign brothers’ and sisters’ and the planet’s demise, EACH OTHER!
[cross-posted on correntewire]
------------
Gee whiz, Libby, I'm guessing this is remarkably restrained compared with the eloquent indignation you'd have rolled out for us had the Romney/Ryan ticket prevailed. I'd also love to see the post you prepared anticipating the possibility of a Jill Stein victory. Well-deserved jubilation, of course, but with a touch of chagrin that Ms. Stein would have no one in Congress to help her pass her legislation.
lib, the constitution was written to protect slave labor plantation owners, and the men whose ships brought them to america. there has never been a golden age of virtue in american society. never a single moment.
when you rage against obama, it is as pointless as raging against gravity. it's not a matter of personalities, it is the operation of social physics, either shrug your shoulders and carve out a life for yourself, or come up with a rational plan to change the character of america.
i tried the latter, without success. better luck if you have any idea, but i'm pretty sure you don't. voltaire was right, in the end, you decide to cultivate your garden, particularly now that mass famine is looking possible.
when you rage against obama, it is as pointless as raging against gravity. it's not a matter of personalities, it is the operation of social physics, either shrug your shoulders and carve out a life for yourself, or come up with a rational plan to change the character of america.
i tried the latter, without success. better luck if you have any idea, but i'm pretty sure you don't. voltaire was right, in the end, you decide to cultivate your garden, particularly now that mass famine is looking possible.
chicken maaan, you mean Jill Stein would not have had such help as Obama from faux-progressive Dem pols and citizens in selling out to and WITH the Repubs and THE GOP BUBBLE PEOPLE (what a divine marriage this grand bargain with Obama/Boehner and both sets of corporate-enabling legacy party willfully denying BUBBLE PEOPLE) to gut our rights and entitlements as citizens in the call for necessary austerity after the elite class robbed us of what they are now saying was a cool $16 trillion.
Time to squeeze more money from the lean coffers of the citizenry's remaining self-investments that should be protected by government not stolen. But razzle dazzle -- not even clever any more, just shameless -- will promote and enable even more grotesque thievery.
Jill Stein to have won would have had to have had a larger moral and outraged citizenry at her back which would help to begin to drain the swamp of corruption of our legislative and judicial branches. But she alas did not.
Remember government of the people, for the people and by the people? That recipe requires committed and courageous people. Instead we have government of the rich, for the rich, by the rich. Stein had the spine. The citizenry? Not so much. Prefer watching democracy circle the bowl or defending the brand personality of Obama.
I thank God there are some citizens who are courageous but still a small ratio.
The majority of the citizenry embraced the politics of crony-cowardism not courage and chose sustained delusion or cynical resigned learned helplessness.
And so Obama merrily continues to dismantle democracy as Trojan Horse for oligarchy. He's got a fresh blank check from the citizenry to do so. To murder and rob.
Greenwald spells it out clearly and cleanly -- what will happen soon re Medicare and Social Security. It will be played out from the Dem side with FAUX- noble stoicism, reluctance, regret but the rationalization of pragmatism. In other words, bull shit.
Did you read Greenwald's steps and do you dispute them? Refute them if you want to be seriously challenging. I simply bitterly framed Greenwald's astute big and real picture.
So "it" "goes". best, libby
Time to squeeze more money from the lean coffers of the citizenry's remaining self-investments that should be protected by government not stolen. But razzle dazzle -- not even clever any more, just shameless -- will promote and enable even more grotesque thievery.
Jill Stein to have won would have had to have had a larger moral and outraged citizenry at her back which would help to begin to drain the swamp of corruption of our legislative and judicial branches. But she alas did not.
Remember government of the people, for the people and by the people? That recipe requires committed and courageous people. Instead we have government of the rich, for the rich, by the rich. Stein had the spine. The citizenry? Not so much. Prefer watching democracy circle the bowl or defending the brand personality of Obama.
I thank God there are some citizens who are courageous but still a small ratio.
The majority of the citizenry embraced the politics of crony-cowardism not courage and chose sustained delusion or cynical resigned learned helplessness.
And so Obama merrily continues to dismantle democracy as Trojan Horse for oligarchy. He's got a fresh blank check from the citizenry to do so. To murder and rob.
Greenwald spells it out clearly and cleanly -- what will happen soon re Medicare and Social Security. It will be played out from the Dem side with FAUX- noble stoicism, reluctance, regret but the rationalization of pragmatism. In other words, bull shit.
Did you read Greenwald's steps and do you dispute them? Refute them if you want to be seriously challenging. I simply bitterly framed Greenwald's astute big and real picture.
So "it" "goes". best, libby
I read Greenwald's piece, Libby, but as opinion, not gospel. We'll have to see what actually does occur.
al, why is it important to go after me as a messenger of morality and try to discourage me from expressing my outrage and demand for a better citizenry and government? No serious skin off your nose, is it? It shouldn't be.
There have been waves of moral consciousness in the past in this country and others. This is a spiritual dark age. Yes, there have been others.
There is a continuum of "higher" collective will and "lower" collective will in terms of the US citizenry. This is not about pollyanna naivete.
We are at a very low ebb. An historically low ebb, even if the deniers celebrate the opposite because the Trojan-Horse in Chief happens to be a black man.
Progress was not made in the past from the too cool for school ones who try to stomp out feelings -- rage -- that is healthy and legitimate from fellow citizens. We live in an anti-feeling society. An anti-human one. We need a paradigm shift from patriarchy with its obsession with power, greed and competition and willingness to steal, cheat and murder according to sociopathic ends justifies the means, winner take all rules to a humanist empathetic one, a feeling one that respects the sanctity of human life and embraces partnership and cooperation.
We need more healthy and legitimate expressing of rage, no matter how embittering and discouraging the course of events is.
I am not ashamed for my rage and my willingness to express it and my wanting a democracy for, of and by the people, as much as it can be and God knows it has a long way to go to fulfill those conditions even in the most modest way considering where it is now.
My willingness to back people who parallel my own call for morality and justice, who have pro-active plans for America, is a healthy thing in my eyes, for me and my country. My support of those willing to even risk arrest and endure it to commit civil disobedience to call out a very ANTI-CIVIL government.
Who has the backs of the courageous? Not most of the US citizenry TRAGICALLY.
In the above blog, I don't think I even brought up Stein, did I? Why are the comments going there?
I was setting forth the astute analysis by Greenwald of the garden path (the same one Obama used to destroy the chances for universal health care in America, and every time he faux reluctantly launches bankrupting and murderous wars, or pretty much anything, in that faux-tabula rasa ... Look How Hard I'm Trying ... duplicitous way ).
This is my kind of "intervention". Or part of it. One small voice from me. My right for who knows how much longer. And anyone can clearly see my attack is more seriously on my fellow citizens than Obama at this point. Since they have signed on board as accessories to murder and massive theft and planetary ecoside and entrapped the rest of us to that legacy and doom.
best, libby
There have been waves of moral consciousness in the past in this country and others. This is a spiritual dark age. Yes, there have been others.
There is a continuum of "higher" collective will and "lower" collective will in terms of the US citizenry. This is not about pollyanna naivete.
We are at a very low ebb. An historically low ebb, even if the deniers celebrate the opposite because the Trojan-Horse in Chief happens to be a black man.
Progress was not made in the past from the too cool for school ones who try to stomp out feelings -- rage -- that is healthy and legitimate from fellow citizens. We live in an anti-feeling society. An anti-human one. We need a paradigm shift from patriarchy with its obsession with power, greed and competition and willingness to steal, cheat and murder according to sociopathic ends justifies the means, winner take all rules to a humanist empathetic one, a feeling one that respects the sanctity of human life and embraces partnership and cooperation.
We need more healthy and legitimate expressing of rage, no matter how embittering and discouraging the course of events is.
I am not ashamed for my rage and my willingness to express it and my wanting a democracy for, of and by the people, as much as it can be and God knows it has a long way to go to fulfill those conditions even in the most modest way considering where it is now.
My willingness to back people who parallel my own call for morality and justice, who have pro-active plans for America, is a healthy thing in my eyes, for me and my country. My support of those willing to even risk arrest and endure it to commit civil disobedience to call out a very ANTI-CIVIL government.
Who has the backs of the courageous? Not most of the US citizenry TRAGICALLY.
In the above blog, I don't think I even brought up Stein, did I? Why are the comments going there?
I was setting forth the astute analysis by Greenwald of the garden path (the same one Obama used to destroy the chances for universal health care in America, and every time he faux reluctantly launches bankrupting and murderous wars, or pretty much anything, in that faux-tabula rasa ... Look How Hard I'm Trying ... duplicitous way ).
This is my kind of "intervention". Or part of it. One small voice from me. My right for who knows how much longer. And anyone can clearly see my attack is more seriously on my fellow citizens than Obama at this point. Since they have signed on board as accessories to murder and massive theft and planetary ecoside and entrapped the rest of us to that legacy and doom.
best, libby
One last comment from me, Lib. Who was it said: Don't get mad, get even? Might better psychology, as scolding people after the fact isn't likely to persuade anyone to see things your way.
chicken maaan, point taken! though I have to go through my five stages of Obama re-election grief. Anger is a conversion process.
you came back three times. I owe you! :-) best, libby xxx
you came back three times. I owe you! :-) best, libby xxx
;-)
After Bush was re-elected, Rove et al were toasted as geniuses. Now Rove is on the hot seat after being revealed for the lying moron he is. It all comes out in the wash. Same will happen with Obama. He will not survive his second term intact.
All the kool-aid drinking going is beyond the pale. And it's exactly when you think you're finally invincible you show your true face. Many laughing today will be crying tomorrow, especially after finding out the folly of selling themselves and their children into eternal indentured servitude to private insurance corporations.
All the kool-aid drinking going is beyond the pale. And it's exactly when you think you're finally invincible you show your true face. Many laughing today will be crying tomorrow, especially after finding out the folly of selling themselves and their children into eternal indentured servitude to private insurance corporations.
Greenwald nails it, as usual. The sad thing is, the Obamabots will praise Obama as he cuts their social security and medicare, thinking, if the other guy got in, they would have taken much more. This is false. Bush tried to privatize SS and failed. It's like Nixon going to China, something only a Republican could have done at the time. Now, Only Obama can successfully cut SS and Medicare but will blame the big bad Republicans. Nothing will change as long as people don't understand that the 2 parties are working together playing good cop/bad cop. They both have the same ultimate goal - reward their corporate bosses who were responsible for getting them in their positions of power in the first place and can take that power away whenever they step out of line.
Thanks for this post -Rated.
Obama's actions in the next month re the "fiscal cliff" may be very revealing. In an insightful piece in Slate on Friday (tinyurl.com/crv9gvf) Matt Yglesias points out that John Boehner actually has no negotiating power re tax increases. All Obama needs to do is wait for January 1st, when the Bush tax cuts expire, without Obama needing a single vote from anybody, Dem or Rep. But what are the chances Obama hurries to make a deal, and then says he had to "give something up", such as a few years of other peoples' Social Security, in order to get those awful Republicans to budge on increasing tax revenues? In other words, Boehner might have some leverage after all, if what Obama really wants is Republican cover for the kind of austerity medicine Wall Street expects Obama to administer.
Obama's actions in the next month re the "fiscal cliff" may be very revealing. In an insightful piece in Slate on Friday (tinyurl.com/crv9gvf) Matt Yglesias points out that John Boehner actually has no negotiating power re tax increases. All Obama needs to do is wait for January 1st, when the Bush tax cuts expire, without Obama needing a single vote from anybody, Dem or Rep. But what are the chances Obama hurries to make a deal, and then says he had to "give something up", such as a few years of other peoples' Social Security, in order to get those awful Republicans to budge on increasing tax revenues? In other words, Boehner might have some leverage after all, if what Obama really wants is Republican cover for the kind of austerity medicine Wall Street expects Obama to administer.
Thanks for this post -Rated.
Obama's actions in the next month re the "fiscal cliff" may be very revealing. In an insightful piece in Slate on Friday (tinyurl.com/crv9gvf) Matt Yglesias points out that John Boehner actually has no negotiating power re tax increases. All Obama needs to do is wait for January 1st, when the Bush tax cuts expire, without Obama needing a single vote from anybody, Dem or Rep. But what are the chances Obama hurries to make a deal, and then says he had to "give something up", such as a few years of other peoples' Social Security, in order to get those awful Republicans to budge on increasing tax revenues? In other words, Boehner might have some leverage after all, if what Obama really wants is Republican cover for the kind of austerity medicine Wall Street expects Obama to administer.
Obama's actions in the next month re the "fiscal cliff" may be very revealing. In an insightful piece in Slate on Friday (tinyurl.com/crv9gvf) Matt Yglesias points out that John Boehner actually has no negotiating power re tax increases. All Obama needs to do is wait for January 1st, when the Bush tax cuts expire, without Obama needing a single vote from anybody, Dem or Rep. But what are the chances Obama hurries to make a deal, and then says he had to "give something up", such as a few years of other peoples' Social Security, in order to get those awful Republicans to budge on increasing tax revenues? In other words, Boehner might have some leverage after all, if what Obama really wants is Republican cover for the kind of austerity medicine Wall Street expects Obama to administer.
I can only commiserate at the destruction of whatever social decency remains in the country but what is most strange to me is the eagerness of the rich and powerful to destroy all the potential of the nation they control. To make their nation weaker, sicker, less educated, less provided with essential services less properly protected from the coming disaster of ecological blowback, more hated throughout the world is, basically to commit a weird form of devaluation of what they have and, at end suicide. Can they be that stupid and blind? It's a puzzle.
Is there a creativity crisis over there on the far left? Dennis Loo posted the same piece from Greenwald a few days ago, to which the only comment (mine) was:
"Very clever, Dennis, but it does not alter my opinion that means-testing Social Security and (especially) Medicare is the right thing to do. Resources are limited - why should those wealthy who took advantage of the subsidies to high earners, a.k.a. cap on contributions, continue to benefit in perpetuity, when there are so many others who need the past government largess more than they do?"
"Very clever, Dennis, but it does not alter my opinion that means-testing Social Security and (especially) Medicare is the right thing to do. Resources are limited - why should those wealthy who took advantage of the subsidies to high earners, a.k.a. cap on contributions, continue to benefit in perpetuity, when there are so many others who need the past government largess more than they do?"
Hopefully the progressives Greenwald describes won't limit themselves to the debating chamber. Hopefully they will be organizing Greek-style mobilizations in the street.
tried to respond to comments last night or wee hours of morning but it seemed like the whole website had gone bye bye. glad to see it again but have to run to work. will comment more later! thanks! best, libby
I'm tempted, of course, to be sarcastic and you leave many openings for me to be here, but I won't, bc as much as I disagree w what you say here and elsewhere as to the election, I respect you and your choices (even though you do not respect mine).
I will say that I am not "conscience-deprived, nor do I inhabit that bubble.
I could have, all along, said that I think a Stein vote was somehow a waste and counter-productive, and I won't bc it wouldn't be accurate.
When you accord the same respect that most here accord you, you'll be in a position to win more people (and writers) to Green's banner.
I rate this bc I can and do deeply admire commitment to good ideas when I see it, even if I recoil from how you have characterized so many of us.
R.
I will say that I am not "conscience-deprived, nor do I inhabit that bubble.
I could have, all along, said that I think a Stein vote was somehow a waste and counter-productive, and I won't bc it wouldn't be accurate.
When you accord the same respect that most here accord you, you'll be in a position to win more people (and writers) to Green's banner.
I rate this bc I can and do deeply admire commitment to good ideas when I see it, even if I recoil from how you have characterized so many of us.
R.
I have to agree with Jonathan here. You and others who support Jill are not endearing yourselves to anyone with your constant attacks on everyone and everything that differs from Green Party philosophy. Can you be so thick, my dear libby, as to fail to realize that your name calling is sooooo typical of the R's and the D's that you just blend into the scenery when you do it.
Forget the "attack" bullshit. It doesn't tell anyone what Jill would actually try to do if elected. Hammer home again what she WOULD DO..... not what them other guys are doing. We all pretty much see what you see in that regard so you're preaching to the choir anyway. And it's getting VERY tiresome. So forget all this negativity.
Let's hear about something positive. What Jill would do about the various problems facing the country and how she'd solve those problems. We're tired of the fluff - we want some meat, y'know what I mean? Real, actual plans; step by step methods of solving these difficulties. Or is all your ad hominem rhetoric a smoke screen to hid the fact that she has no such plans?
Time to shit or get off the pot, my dear. Either put it on the table or admit you don't have it.
"R"
;-)
.
Forget the "attack" bullshit. It doesn't tell anyone what Jill would actually try to do if elected. Hammer home again what she WOULD DO..... not what them other guys are doing. We all pretty much see what you see in that regard so you're preaching to the choir anyway. And it's getting VERY tiresome. So forget all this negativity.
Let's hear about something positive. What Jill would do about the various problems facing the country and how she'd solve those problems. We're tired of the fluff - we want some meat, y'know what I mean? Real, actual plans; step by step methods of solving these difficulties. Or is all your ad hominem rhetoric a smoke screen to hid the fact that she has no such plans?
Time to shit or get off the pot, my dear. Either put it on the table or admit you don't have it.
"R"
;-)
.
grace in defeat outweighs victory struts.....
stick to your beliefs and keep pushin them.....alienation don't help...
stick to your beliefs and keep pushin them.....alienation don't help...
Like Jonathan, Libby, I am not conscience-deprived…nor am I in an Obama bubble.
We agree there are problems…and we disagree on the best immediate moves. Is it so difficult to simply acknowledge that…rather than constantly lambasting those of us who differ with your intentions of remediation?
You wrote:
Fool you and me once, don’t blame us. Fool us an infinite number of times?
You were fooled and disappointed by the promises Obama made (promises which I thought there was no way he could keep)…and instead of holding your unrealistic expectations in check, you went on to being fooled by the likes of Jill Stein (who if elected in a miracle almost certainly would not have done a tiny percent of what she promised).
Stop thinking the huge problems of a very, very complex society can be corrected easily. The problems are vast…and any significant change in them will come glacially slowly…and only in tiny increments.
The Jill Steins of the world…the Occupy this or that…are not remedies or even pathways to remedies. They are wishful thinking…the kind that result in being fooled time and time again.
I do not agree with Skypixio very often, but his advice to you was spot on. Give it serious consideration.
We agree there are problems…and we disagree on the best immediate moves. Is it so difficult to simply acknowledge that…rather than constantly lambasting those of us who differ with your intentions of remediation?
You wrote:
Fool you and me once, don’t blame us. Fool us an infinite number of times?
You were fooled and disappointed by the promises Obama made (promises which I thought there was no way he could keep)…and instead of holding your unrealistic expectations in check, you went on to being fooled by the likes of Jill Stein (who if elected in a miracle almost certainly would not have done a tiny percent of what she promised).
Stop thinking the huge problems of a very, very complex society can be corrected easily. The problems are vast…and any significant change in them will come glacially slowly…and only in tiny increments.
The Jill Steins of the world…the Occupy this or that…are not remedies or even pathways to remedies. They are wishful thinking…the kind that result in being fooled time and time again.
I do not agree with Skypixio very often, but his advice to you was spot on. Give it serious consideration.
The assumption in the criticism of both Stein and Libby is inherently based on the obviously false concept that both have honest agendas that would be turned around by the stubbornness of the opposition in the manner that Obama has acted. That Obama is a good fellow basically who has been totally frustrated by a system that is basically unchangeable is the mirage he has been selling to excuse his behavior. Any superficial examination of Obama's methods and the people he called into his cabinet and advisory groups to work the levers of government belies this assumption totally. Obama and Stein are not two of a kind or anywhere near it. Obama has acted as a dutiful agent of the forces that are destroying the stated principles of the country right from the moment he took power and when he had the momentum to make strong changes in the direction of the country. He not only threw this opportunity away but further vigorously engaged in the very processes that are tearing the country apart and to claim that Stein would be forced to do the same is nonsense as she has gained whatever small prominence she possesses is in spite of her opposition to the powerful malignancies behind Obama's agenda.
The bland acceptance that Obama is now in a position to return to his original promises of his original campaign is the narcotic again dosed with the smug faith in his totally obvious absent integrity.
And that is very solid grounds for any perceptive observer to stand firm in an attitude of total fury at the determined program to screw the country royally in favor of a totalitarian regime giving the military-corporate-financial complex free reign and absolute power. Anybody not boiling mad about this is numb from the neck up.
The bland acceptance that Obama is now in a position to return to his original promises of his original campaign is the narcotic again dosed with the smug faith in his totally obvious absent integrity.
And that is very solid grounds for any perceptive observer to stand firm in an attitude of total fury at the determined program to screw the country royally in favor of a totalitarian regime giving the military-corporate-financial complex free reign and absolute power. Anybody not boiling mad about this is numb from the neck up.
And that is very solid grounds for any perceptive observer to stand firm in an attitude of total fury at the determined program to screw the country royally in favor of a totalitarian regime giving the military-corporate-financial complex free reign and absolute power. Anybody not boiling mad about this is numb from the neck up.
Once again we have an assertion that anyone who does not agree with the extreme considerations of the disgruntled left has to be nuts or stupid.
That is not the case, Jan. There are some of us who see things differently from you and Libby and the others who seem determined to see evil...and nothing else...in what Obama has done and is doing.
But, if that kind of thinking meets some need of you folk...continue with it. Understand there are some of us who will react and respond to it...if for no other reason than that it is uncalled for and unnecessary.
Once again we have an assertion that anyone who does not agree with the extreme considerations of the disgruntled left has to be nuts or stupid.
That is not the case, Jan. There are some of us who see things differently from you and Libby and the others who seem determined to see evil...and nothing else...in what Obama has done and is doing.
But, if that kind of thinking meets some need of you folk...continue with it. Understand there are some of us who will react and respond to it...if for no other reason than that it is uncalled for and unnecessary.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Personally, I think you should continue to lay it on thick. lol. That way, when Obama puts the final stake in the middle class and destroys the progressive institutions that people have given their lives to create and uphold, those who rationalized their votes for the evil of the Democratic Party will be reminded........... that it was in fact their vote that led to their own demise by rationalizing their bargaining with evil.
How often can we look back on the history of humankind and see how those who were willing to embrace a "little bit of evil" for a greater good ended up eating those words? Evil is evil. And, a little bit of evil always leads to a little bit more then a little bit more and a little bit more.
The day will come when the Obama apologists will be issuing their own apologies to their families, friends and loved ones. That is, if they are capable of taking responsibility for the world their vote is going to create.
How often can we look back on the history of humankind and see how those who were willing to embrace a "little bit of evil" for a greater good ended up eating those words? Evil is evil. And, a little bit of evil always leads to a little bit more then a little bit more and a little bit more.
The day will come when the Obama apologists will be issuing their own apologies to their families, friends and loved ones. That is, if they are capable of taking responsibility for the world their vote is going to create.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Finally something about which we agree in spades. I wanted to direct a though like that to you in my last post.
So allow me to second what you said:
THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE!
Finally something about which we agree in spades. I wanted to direct a though like that to you in my last post.
So allow me to second what you said:
THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE!
ANFSCD! Thank you for such a thoughtful comment! I had written a rather long comment back and then open salon went nuts when I tried to save it. My grandiosity figured I had really been a bad girl and said the wrong thing and big prez or brother was after me. Sigh.
Thank you for bringing up how our society led by a craven and amoral corporate media (which is actually led by the -- what is it -- 6 bastards of the universe running the pyschopathic legal person personality international media megacorporations anoints winners as superior people and defines winners as those amassing power and/or money and/or influence and/or fame no matter what they have done. Ends justifies the means to our corrupt media overlords and thus our charismatic messengers for them. Way too many of them handing out the evil or supposed lesser evil kool aid.
Rove is a great case in point. This man should be locked up. Instead Fox News is bending over kissing his ring as well as David Gregory type sychophants on Meet the Press. You are respected for being famous or infamous, no biggie which as long as you got results whether you broke legal or moral law!
I saw a new dramatic tipping point for this seriously with the OJ trial. The hell with two brutal murders. THE WINNAHS ARE the defense team and also even OJ for the gamesmanship at the trial.
Gamesmanship.
That is why the election was not about people and issues and values, it was about GAMESMANSHIP AND POLLS AND STRATEGY AND MONEY. And that cockroach Rove plays so dirty as did the Watergate boys, but instead of draining the swamp the Democratic Party plays its own hardball. they just join in now in the swim. Rahm Emanuel, Axelrod et al. Bleeeeechhhhhhh.
They'll TRY to talk the talk but when it comes to the test they'll cave so as not to risk the win. HYPOCRISY AND AMORALITY.
How many celebrity laps and exploitation of said celebrity for Henry Kissinger? Does the younger generation even know how many he was responsible for killing? How many millions? But he is fawned over and his charisma celebrated on the talk shows, even the faux-liberal ones. I lost respect for Jon Stewart with his fawning over Condi Rice, etc. Yeah, once the guest comes on their "nice" personality sets up a "cronyism" and their actual amoral actions are lost in the tv-host generated good will.
Yes, we shouldn't demonize people for the sake of communication. But we also shouldn't accommodate them by sweeping their crimes against humanity under the rug letting personality trump character and amoral conduct.
I think of Oprah lying to her audiences to go out and see a dog of a movie one of her celebrity BFFs is pitching on the tube on one of her particular old shows. That is telling. So we got that kind of Oprah VETTING Obama? God, was that a mistake! BUT THAT IS CRONYISM! That nice warm hot tub of cronyism in which citizen frogs are boiled to death.
I wish the younger kids of America had better role models. Which is why I was happy to see Jill Stein step forward. Manning. Assange. should be role models but are vilifed by our wimpy fourth estate and pols that don't want their evil illuminated and the apologists for Obama. Obama as a role model? Mr. style over substance, slickster, fraudster, assassin? What messaging is going out to them about Obama, especially winner of a second term. Endorsed by the lemming public.
Take care and thanks. Going to try to post and see if it takes!
best, libby
Thank you for bringing up how our society led by a craven and amoral corporate media (which is actually led by the -- what is it -- 6 bastards of the universe running the pyschopathic legal person personality international media megacorporations anoints winners as superior people and defines winners as those amassing power and/or money and/or influence and/or fame no matter what they have done. Ends justifies the means to our corrupt media overlords and thus our charismatic messengers for them. Way too many of them handing out the evil or supposed lesser evil kool aid.
Rove is a great case in point. This man should be locked up. Instead Fox News is bending over kissing his ring as well as David Gregory type sychophants on Meet the Press. You are respected for being famous or infamous, no biggie which as long as you got results whether you broke legal or moral law!
I saw a new dramatic tipping point for this seriously with the OJ trial. The hell with two brutal murders. THE WINNAHS ARE the defense team and also even OJ for the gamesmanship at the trial.
Gamesmanship.
That is why the election was not about people and issues and values, it was about GAMESMANSHIP AND POLLS AND STRATEGY AND MONEY. And that cockroach Rove plays so dirty as did the Watergate boys, but instead of draining the swamp the Democratic Party plays its own hardball. they just join in now in the swim. Rahm Emanuel, Axelrod et al. Bleeeeechhhhhhh.
They'll TRY to talk the talk but when it comes to the test they'll cave so as not to risk the win. HYPOCRISY AND AMORALITY.
How many celebrity laps and exploitation of said celebrity for Henry Kissinger? Does the younger generation even know how many he was responsible for killing? How many millions? But he is fawned over and his charisma celebrated on the talk shows, even the faux-liberal ones. I lost respect for Jon Stewart with his fawning over Condi Rice, etc. Yeah, once the guest comes on their "nice" personality sets up a "cronyism" and their actual amoral actions are lost in the tv-host generated good will.
Yes, we shouldn't demonize people for the sake of communication. But we also shouldn't accommodate them by sweeping their crimes against humanity under the rug letting personality trump character and amoral conduct.
I think of Oprah lying to her audiences to go out and see a dog of a movie one of her celebrity BFFs is pitching on the tube on one of her particular old shows. That is telling. So we got that kind of Oprah VETTING Obama? God, was that a mistake! BUT THAT IS CRONYISM! That nice warm hot tub of cronyism in which citizen frogs are boiled to death.
I wish the younger kids of America had better role models. Which is why I was happy to see Jill Stein step forward. Manning. Assange. should be role models but are vilifed by our wimpy fourth estate and pols that don't want their evil illuminated and the apologists for Obama. Obama as a role model? Mr. style over substance, slickster, fraudster, assassin? What messaging is going out to them about Obama, especially winner of a second term. Endorsed by the lemming public.
Take care and thanks. Going to try to post and see if it takes!
best, libby
Wow, libbyliberal, I think I'm so depressed after all this contentiousness tonight I have to say somebody please prop me up beside the jukebox if I die. :) For some reason, The Red Man's posts now no longer can be transferred OS so I guess this is goodbye. I believe you are the only person who will miss him here. Take care and warmest wishes from your friend in the South..Sheila
SHEILA! SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!! I am so sorry you are having system trouble in your wonderful Redman saga!!!! My personal fave!!! I will personally contact you soon.
You will be sooooo missed if you leave. Last night with that strange apache screen I thought it was the end of the site!
Take care and thanks for showing up here on this thread!
Love, libby xxx
You will be sooooo missed if you leave. Last night with that strange apache screen I thought it was the end of the site!
Take care and thanks for showing up here on this thread!
Love, libby xxx
libby
Ok the election is over.
I'm starting the "Long Island Iced T-Party"
The slogan is "CHILL"
The Platform is mostly "mind your own business, but remember that your business will be required to put more into the community than it takes out" The theory is that the ONLY "Fair Trade" is one that benefits ALL parties to a "deal"
The "encouraging" part of this election is the number of state issues that re-asserted the "Mind your own business" part.
IE. Abortion is none of the states business.
Drug use doesn't become the states business until you endanger someone else ( eg- DUI )
Who or what you chose to have sex with is no-one else's business . Tax and Social advantages sanctioned by the state will be either open to any couple, or preferably not provided to ANY couple.
Taxes will be flat rate and based not on Income, but on a percentage of your wealth. No Exemptions.
No more Food stamps. Organized food distribution
No more Mortgage exemption. Free basic public housing.
The federal government returns to it's role of protecting our borders and dealing with ACTUAL "Interstate COMMERCE (ie actual TRADE- not "intellectual possibility of trade")
In that regard, the Federal Government Closes the Borders and when they ARE closed, grants AMNESTY ( NOT Citizenship- that must be Earned) to all illegals in the country.
The question of "corporate" personhood" will be revisited on a state by state basis, with an emphasis on the distinctions between the rights of a Human "citizen" and the "rights" of a corporate one.
The problem that I see that will be most delicate between us will be of "Global Warming", because quite frankly, I see cap and trade as another market scam to make people like Al Gore even richer.
I whole heartedly agree with conservation and recycling, and making sure that industrial sites don't poison the environment. Where we have room for discussion is whether CO2 is a "Pollutant" or just a way of bankrupting the coal industry to the benefit of speculators.
The way I see it, the only way to prevent Obamney et alia from taking over and doing just what you predict, is to organize NOW for a party that will embrace the concerns of BOTH the T-Party AND OWS
Citizens of conscience must work together to take back the electorate from the citizens of "self-interest".
Ok the election is over.
I'm starting the "Long Island Iced T-Party"
The slogan is "CHILL"
The Platform is mostly "mind your own business, but remember that your business will be required to put more into the community than it takes out" The theory is that the ONLY "Fair Trade" is one that benefits ALL parties to a "deal"
The "encouraging" part of this election is the number of state issues that re-asserted the "Mind your own business" part.
IE. Abortion is none of the states business.
Drug use doesn't become the states business until you endanger someone else ( eg- DUI )
Who or what you chose to have sex with is no-one else's business . Tax and Social advantages sanctioned by the state will be either open to any couple, or preferably not provided to ANY couple.
Taxes will be flat rate and based not on Income, but on a percentage of your wealth. No Exemptions.
No more Food stamps. Organized food distribution
No more Mortgage exemption. Free basic public housing.
The federal government returns to it's role of protecting our borders and dealing with ACTUAL "Interstate COMMERCE (ie actual TRADE- not "intellectual possibility of trade")
In that regard, the Federal Government Closes the Borders and when they ARE closed, grants AMNESTY ( NOT Citizenship- that must be Earned) to all illegals in the country.
The question of "corporate" personhood" will be revisited on a state by state basis, with an emphasis on the distinctions between the rights of a Human "citizen" and the "rights" of a corporate one.
The problem that I see that will be most delicate between us will be of "Global Warming", because quite frankly, I see cap and trade as another market scam to make people like Al Gore even richer.
I whole heartedly agree with conservation and recycling, and making sure that industrial sites don't poison the environment. Where we have room for discussion is whether CO2 is a "Pollutant" or just a way of bankrupting the coal industry to the benefit of speculators.
The way I see it, the only way to prevent Obamney et alia from taking over and doing just what you predict, is to organize NOW for a party that will embrace the concerns of BOTH the T-Party AND OWS
Citizens of conscience must work together to take back the electorate from the citizens of "self-interest".
PS I'm trying to get this guy to run......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX-GAkaXSSI&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX-GAkaXSSI&feature=player_embedded
AP, Thanks for commenting! Yes, when I read Greenwald's wrap up I thought EXACTLY!!! What is so maddening is the faux-reluctance! I totally agree with you on this:
"It's like Nixon going to China, something only a Republican could have done at the time. Now, Only Obama can successfully cut SS and Medicare but will blame the big bad Republicans. Nothing will change as long as people don't understand that the 2 parties are working together playing good cop/bad cop. They both have the same ultimate goal - reward their corporate bosses who were responsible for getting them in their positions of power in the first place and can take that power away whenever they step out of line."
end of your quote
But here we go, AP, for another round of EXTREME bullshit kabuki crazymaking. The boiled frogs water gets ever hotter.
best, libby
"It's like Nixon going to China, something only a Republican could have done at the time. Now, Only Obama can successfully cut SS and Medicare but will blame the big bad Republicans. Nothing will change as long as people don't understand that the 2 parties are working together playing good cop/bad cop. They both have the same ultimate goal - reward their corporate bosses who were responsible for getting them in their positions of power in the first place and can take that power away whenever they step out of line."
end of your quote
But here we go, AP, for another round of EXTREME bullshit kabuki crazymaking. The boiled frogs water gets ever hotter.
best, libby
Bart, So great to see you! Yes, I agree with your and Matt's expectation that Obama will volunteer to cut deeply into the entitlements all in the name of bullshit "bipartisanship".
Now they are saying $16 trillion so far has been taken from the tax coffers to bail-out the rich!
All the evidence people like us have put forth of Obama's shenanigans and he gets a blank check to do even more and greater (eviler) ones!
best, libby
Now they are saying $16 trillion so far has been taken from the tax coffers to bail-out the rich!
All the evidence people like us have put forth of Obama's shenanigans and he gets a blank check to do even more and greater (eviler) ones!
best, libby
Jan, thanks for your intelligence and your sensibility.
So much corruption, so much mendacity, so much violence, so much thievery, so much denial and minimization among progressives. The politics of cowardism.
Yeah, the narcissism and sociopathy of the rich staggers me.
But the obtuseness of my fellow progressives staggers me even more.
I spent so much time since I joined trying to communicate about the reality of what has been going on. Digging out information that the corporate media wouldn't touch on, in fact was lying about. I focused on the Dems and Obama since they were the betrayers in power.
Where did it get me? My exasperation and anger is distressing the delicate feelings of those enabling a war criminal, a white collar criminal, an assassin, a destroyer of the planet, a droner, an incarcerator of people who don't deserve to be incarcerated, of deporting people who don't deserve to be deported, destroyer of our constitutional rights, persecutor of whistleblowers, destroyer of health care welfare. Invader of privacy rights. supporter of al Qaeda. I could go on and on and on but where has that gotten me with so many on this website in the past year or so?
So what, Jan, do people not believe this stuff is true or do they just not give a shit? After a year of earnest blogs about this stuff, I'm thinking the latter. Obama's resume in 2008, one sentence: "I'm not Bush" His resume in 2012, "I'm not Romney". Hell of a racket.
We as a citizenry blew our leverage one more time with this election. What fools.
So it goes.
Thanks for your sanity! best, libby
So much corruption, so much mendacity, so much violence, so much thievery, so much denial and minimization among progressives. The politics of cowardism.
Yeah, the narcissism and sociopathy of the rich staggers me.
But the obtuseness of my fellow progressives staggers me even more.
I spent so much time since I joined trying to communicate about the reality of what has been going on. Digging out information that the corporate media wouldn't touch on, in fact was lying about. I focused on the Dems and Obama since they were the betrayers in power.
Where did it get me? My exasperation and anger is distressing the delicate feelings of those enabling a war criminal, a white collar criminal, an assassin, a destroyer of the planet, a droner, an incarcerator of people who don't deserve to be incarcerated, of deporting people who don't deserve to be deported, destroyer of our constitutional rights, persecutor of whistleblowers, destroyer of health care welfare. Invader of privacy rights. supporter of al Qaeda. I could go on and on and on but where has that gotten me with so many on this website in the past year or so?
So what, Jan, do people not believe this stuff is true or do they just not give a shit? After a year of earnest blogs about this stuff, I'm thinking the latter. Obama's resume in 2008, one sentence: "I'm not Bush" His resume in 2012, "I'm not Romney". Hell of a racket.
We as a citizenry blew our leverage one more time with this election. What fools.
So it goes.
Thanks for your sanity! best, libby
will be back. best, libby
Unfortunately, I don't think that most people are open to consideration of anything outside the corporate/media created categories.
As long as people believe that they can only select from the "menu as printed," there will be no progress. And on the day that it all comes due, everyone will know the meaning of the "fire the next time."
As horrible as revolutions are, they are a forgone conclusion when the mass are sold up. France started with Marat and ended with Robespierre and Bonaparte. Thus it ever was. Why do we think that people will make "rational choices" [Google, if you can stand the heavy irony - - its one of the Rand Institute's goodies!].
As long as people believe that they can only select from the "menu as printed," there will be no progress. And on the day that it all comes due, everyone will know the meaning of the "fire the next time."
As horrible as revolutions are, they are a forgone conclusion when the mass are sold up. France started with Marat and ended with Robespierre and Bonaparte. Thus it ever was. Why do we think that people will make "rational choices" [Google, if you can stand the heavy irony - - its one of the Rand Institute's goodies!].
Joe, my goodness, I am responsible for not repeating anything that Dennis Loo may have said on his blog? WTF? Glenn Greenwald's CLARITY is not to be dwelled on or does not bear repeating, because the lot at open salon is so thoroughly consciousness raised with everyone's blogging?
What are you trying to say to me exactly?
Creativity crisis?
So, Joe, you are saying that SO WHAT that the corporate elite and their pimped out pols including Obama bailed out too big to fail or too go to jail banksters and their ilk get to take $16 trillion of money that belonged to ALL Americans especially non-rich people since we pay more taxes proportionally, but when we need health care and we need what we have invested in all our lives -- social security -- that money gets to be taken out further for these bastards of the universe also to be used for wars, ugly rotten EVIL EVIL EVIL wars, because they have the power.
And the likes of people like you apparently will defend the NEED of these horrifying bastards to economically rape us Americans?
I'm thinking you are having a creativity boom in your stunning capacity to twist reality in justifying massive thievery of fellow citizens.
I don't know what else to say.
best, libby
What are you trying to say to me exactly?
Creativity crisis?
So, Joe, you are saying that SO WHAT that the corporate elite and their pimped out pols including Obama bailed out too big to fail or too go to jail banksters and their ilk get to take $16 trillion of money that belonged to ALL Americans especially non-rich people since we pay more taxes proportionally, but when we need health care and we need what we have invested in all our lives -- social security -- that money gets to be taken out further for these bastards of the universe also to be used for wars, ugly rotten EVIL EVIL EVIL wars, because they have the power.
And the likes of people like you apparently will defend the NEED of these horrifying bastards to economically rape us Americans?
I'm thinking you are having a creativity boom in your stunning capacity to twist reality in justifying massive thievery of fellow citizens.
I don't know what else to say.
best, libby
Stuart, thanks for commenting. I am mourning the stunning degree of OBTUSENESS of American Democrats and their BETRAYAL of decency and ethics and real liberalism and morality.
Open salon is certainly a microcosm of the massive lack of conscience.
When you have the Ellsbergs and the Springsteens and the Robert Parrys and the Chomskys siding with the ruse of lesser evilism, things are really profoundly corrupt and insidious and worthy of serious mourning.
It is said supposed intellectuals in Germany EMBRACED Hitler. Intelligence did not seem a factor in whether one had a conscience or not. It is really obvious to me today -- am getting that message intensely now.
Thanks for you, your courage and sensibility, your vast intelligence as well as your emotional intelligence, your conscience!
best, libby
Open salon is certainly a microcosm of the massive lack of conscience.
When you have the Ellsbergs and the Springsteens and the Robert Parrys and the Chomskys siding with the ruse of lesser evilism, things are really profoundly corrupt and insidious and worthy of serious mourning.
It is said supposed intellectuals in Germany EMBRACED Hitler. Intelligence did not seem a factor in whether one had a conscience or not. It is really obvious to me today -- am getting that message intensely now.
Thanks for you, your courage and sensibility, your vast intelligence as well as your emotional intelligence, your conscience!
best, libby
If W couldn't push through a defenestration of Social Security, why do you think Obama will want to? Seems to me the wrath of the the American voters will be monstrous if anybody thinks of that. By the way, that makes people living in Illinois particularly important because otherwise reasonable Sen. Dick Durbin is being an asshat on this issue.
As a political scientist, I see this election as the most significant since 1980. The GOP has suddenly realized that Ronald Reagan died on November 7th. As we speak both the Republican and Democratic parties are going profound transformations in their membership and leadership.
The Republicans are about ready to engage in a civil war between reality and fantasy based thinkers. Meanwhile, the Ds do not yet know how activated the youth are in this country and how different they are from their parents. Democratic youth are making common cause with Hispanics and LGBTs and enviros among other things.
You can see an example of what's happening invisibly on my latest blog. There is a great deal of reason to be optimistic now.
By the way, I voted for Jill Stein too.
As a political scientist, I see this election as the most significant since 1980. The GOP has suddenly realized that Ronald Reagan died on November 7th. As we speak both the Republican and Democratic parties are going profound transformations in their membership and leadership.
The Republicans are about ready to engage in a civil war between reality and fantasy based thinkers. Meanwhile, the Ds do not yet know how activated the youth are in this country and how different they are from their parents. Democratic youth are making common cause with Hispanics and LGBTs and enviros among other things.
You can see an example of what's happening invisibly on my latest blog. There is a great deal of reason to be optimistic now.
By the way, I voted for Jill Stein too.
Seer, I take it from the attractive eye of your avatar you are a female.
Nothing like being PATRONIZED for fighting an uber- patriarchal society like America and a website that is a microcosm of said society by a fellow woman!
How creepy you imply I am "crazy" as I watch my fellow supposed progressives who no longer deserve that label, especially the supporters of a crap Democratic party, sell out massively and deny a horrifying and granted crazymaking reality. To me if people are not CRAZED with outrage right now, they are the crazy ones. Often in a dysfunctional system, if you look for the most "serenely" in control person in the group, chances are that is the sickest member of the system.
You are obviously not familiar with many of my blogs and comments. I am not young. I protested Viet Nam. I once got to shake hands with RFK when he had decided to run for prez. He didn't know who the hell I was and was glad-handing, but it was still a nice moment for me. I've done some activism in my life, some of it as a Democrat. I pride myself today on NOT being a Democrat.
By the way, I'll pitch the savvy and maturity of the young me back in the day to the horrifying moral shallowness among so many I have apparently been addressing and investing time and creativity in since I joined here.
There are brilliant and wonderful people here at open salon, but there are many (so many more than I reckoned) who I am awed by, by their ferocious and colossal commitment to denial and minimization, and as I said to Stuart, was it, it is not about intelligence, aside from emotional intelligence whether one is my definition, Seer, of "crazy" (and I view that in terms of profound lack of conscience and a sense of values, morality, ethics, EMPATHY), it is about a desensitization so profound it leaves me breathless at times. When I manage to resume my breath I come back to try to fight it. though I am coming to recognize that may not be possible to impact one iota such people -- such a tragically large number of "good German-type" people.
"sigh".. back at you, Seer!
I hope and pray you are not one of the lost ones. I'm not patronizing you. I sincerely mean that.
best, libby
Nothing like being PATRONIZED for fighting an uber- patriarchal society like America and a website that is a microcosm of said society by a fellow woman!
How creepy you imply I am "crazy" as I watch my fellow supposed progressives who no longer deserve that label, especially the supporters of a crap Democratic party, sell out massively and deny a horrifying and granted crazymaking reality. To me if people are not CRAZED with outrage right now, they are the crazy ones. Often in a dysfunctional system, if you look for the most "serenely" in control person in the group, chances are that is the sickest member of the system.
You are obviously not familiar with many of my blogs and comments. I am not young. I protested Viet Nam. I once got to shake hands with RFK when he had decided to run for prez. He didn't know who the hell I was and was glad-handing, but it was still a nice moment for me. I've done some activism in my life, some of it as a Democrat. I pride myself today on NOT being a Democrat.
By the way, I'll pitch the savvy and maturity of the young me back in the day to the horrifying moral shallowness among so many I have apparently been addressing and investing time and creativity in since I joined here.
There are brilliant and wonderful people here at open salon, but there are many (so many more than I reckoned) who I am awed by, by their ferocious and colossal commitment to denial and minimization, and as I said to Stuart, was it, it is not about intelligence, aside from emotional intelligence whether one is my definition, Seer, of "crazy" (and I view that in terms of profound lack of conscience and a sense of values, morality, ethics, EMPATHY), it is about a desensitization so profound it leaves me breathless at times. When I manage to resume my breath I come back to try to fight it. though I am coming to recognize that may not be possible to impact one iota such people -- such a tragically large number of "good German-type" people.
"sigh".. back at you, Seer!
I hope and pray you are not one of the lost ones. I'm not patronizing you. I sincerely mean that.
best, libby
Jonathan, it must really confuse you as to why people actually read my blogs and even rate me at times I suspect.
I "recoil" you but yet you came to read and comment and even rate? I guess that is supposed to show me what noble co-blogging behavior is?
I don't share your commitment to "cronyism". In fact, Jonathan, I think cronyism, group-collusion, is incredibly dangerous. A legacy perhaps from growing up in a ultra-codependent alcoholism-damaged family system.
So many occasions of "cronyism" and collusive group rationalization and mass denial and desensitization. The collective heart of darkness of a group of any size.
Reading Scott Peck on the MyLai massacre was stunning. Not that the mass slaughter had happened since conditions had been incrementally driving the haggard and crazed group of soldiers to it, but even that not only the direct perpetrators but their incredibly large circles of acquaintances did not emotionally and spiritually REGISTER the monstrosity of what had happened!!! It was only an accident that from the hundreds familiar with the massacre one lone person passed along the information to someone who wasn't totally lost to amorality like the hundreds of others. Maybe it is selective amorality, but it should be respected in how profoundly dangerous it is.
Looking at the mass murder, the massive evil of the USwarmachine and the military industrial security media prison complex MyLai was nothing comparatively in the specific numbers of gratuitously killed (in terms of how a media would judge it, not that the media judges any evil much any more), but it is Exhibit A of what happens to people cronied up in denial and minimization.
My thoughts.
Nothing personal, Jonathan, with my anger at the Obama enablers. I am calling out not just the good Germans so to speak of open salon of which the numbers more and more often stun me. I am calling out impressive company such as Ellsberg, Springsteen, Maddow, Chomsky, Robert Parry, and others for lending their weight to the deadweight of the problem in this country and not giving energy and support to the solution.
You know that moment in Moonstruck when Cher WHACKS Nicholas Cage across the cheek and yells, "SNAP OUT OF IT!!!" That is what I imagine doing to an AMERICA that is lost lost lost to denial and minimization.
Cher had better results than I ever will.
So it goes.
best, libby
I "recoil" you but yet you came to read and comment and even rate? I guess that is supposed to show me what noble co-blogging behavior is?
I don't share your commitment to "cronyism". In fact, Jonathan, I think cronyism, group-collusion, is incredibly dangerous. A legacy perhaps from growing up in a ultra-codependent alcoholism-damaged family system.
So many occasions of "cronyism" and collusive group rationalization and mass denial and desensitization. The collective heart of darkness of a group of any size.
Reading Scott Peck on the MyLai massacre was stunning. Not that the mass slaughter had happened since conditions had been incrementally driving the haggard and crazed group of soldiers to it, but even that not only the direct perpetrators but their incredibly large circles of acquaintances did not emotionally and spiritually REGISTER the monstrosity of what had happened!!! It was only an accident that from the hundreds familiar with the massacre one lone person passed along the information to someone who wasn't totally lost to amorality like the hundreds of others. Maybe it is selective amorality, but it should be respected in how profoundly dangerous it is.
Looking at the mass murder, the massive evil of the USwarmachine and the military industrial security media prison complex MyLai was nothing comparatively in the specific numbers of gratuitously killed (in terms of how a media would judge it, not that the media judges any evil much any more), but it is Exhibit A of what happens to people cronied up in denial and minimization.
My thoughts.
Nothing personal, Jonathan, with my anger at the Obama enablers. I am calling out not just the good Germans so to speak of open salon of which the numbers more and more often stun me. I am calling out impressive company such as Ellsberg, Springsteen, Maddow, Chomsky, Robert Parry, and others for lending their weight to the deadweight of the problem in this country and not giving energy and support to the solution.
You know that moment in Moonstruck when Cher WHACKS Nicholas Cage across the cheek and yells, "SNAP OUT OF IT!!!" That is what I imagine doing to an AMERICA that is lost lost lost to denial and minimization.
Cher had better results than I ever will.
So it goes.
best, libby
I'll be back. IRL pressure and also am reading the accounts of the Petraeus freak show. Dear God!
Thanks, those of you who read and commented and those who are continuing to read and to comment here. I hope to get through the thread and am so sorry it is taking so long. best, libby
Thanks, those of you who read and commented and those who are continuing to read and to comment here. I hope to get through the thread and am so sorry it is taking so long. best, libby
If W couldn't push through a defenestration of Social Security, why do you think Obama will want to? Seems to me the wrath of the the American voters will be monstrous if anybody thinks of that. By the way, that makes people living in Illinois particularly important because otherwise reasonable Sen. Dick Durbin is being an asshat on this issue.
As a political scientist, I see this election as the most significant since 1980. The GOP has suddenly realized that Ronald Reagan died on November 7th. As we speak both the Republican and Democratic parties are going profound transformations in their membership and leadership.
The Republicans are about ready to engage in a civil war between reality and fantasy based thinkers. Meanwhile, the Ds do not yet know how activated the youth are in this country and how different they are from their parents. Democratic youth are making common cause with Hispanics and LGBTs and enviros among other things.
You can see an example of what's happening invisibly on my latest blog. There is a great deal of reason to be optimistic now.
By the way, I voted for Jill Stein too.
As a political scientist, I see this election as the most significant since 1980. The GOP has suddenly realized that Ronald Reagan died on November 7th. As we speak both the Republican and Democratic parties are going profound transformations in their membership and leadership.
The Republicans are about ready to engage in a civil war between reality and fantasy based thinkers. Meanwhile, the Ds do not yet know how activated the youth are in this country and how different they are from their parents. Democratic youth are making common cause with Hispanics and LGBTs and enviros among other things.
You can see an example of what's happening invisibly on my latest blog. There is a great deal of reason to be optimistic now.
By the way, I voted for Jill Stein too.
Libby,
I rate numbers of your posts bc I find them interesting regardless of whether i agree w them.
I do find it really odd that your response to me supposes my family dysfunction, and, apparently, inter-generationally. It's worse than odd, of course.
My question is, if Ms. Stein (or Green, in future) begins to garner significant percentages of votes...when precisely does what you do/espouse, become "cronyism".
When I supported and worked hard for Shirley Chisholm and Gene McCarthy (earlier) I knew they would never get a majority yet I worked for them, canvassed for them, wrote for them, joyously.
You seem, by contrast, only angry and spiteful and, therefore, boring.
Trust me, I won't be here again at your posts. It's not my job to say what I believe (at any blog) and get pseudo-psychologically-based insults for my efforts.
I rate numbers of your posts bc I find them interesting regardless of whether i agree w them.
I do find it really odd that your response to me supposes my family dysfunction, and, apparently, inter-generationally. It's worse than odd, of course.
My question is, if Ms. Stein (or Green, in future) begins to garner significant percentages of votes...when precisely does what you do/espouse, become "cronyism".
When I supported and worked hard for Shirley Chisholm and Gene McCarthy (earlier) I knew they would never get a majority yet I worked for them, canvassed for them, wrote for them, joyously.
You seem, by contrast, only angry and spiteful and, therefore, boring.
Trust me, I won't be here again at your posts. It's not my job to say what I believe (at any blog) and get pseudo-psychologically-based insults for my efforts.
If W couldn't push through a defenestration of Social Security, why do you think Obama will want to? Seems to me the wrath of the the American voters will be monstrous if anybody thinks of that. By the way, that makes people living in Illinois particularly important because otherwise reasonable Sen. Dick Durbin is being an asshat on this issue.
As a political scientist, I see this election as the most significant since 1980. The GOP has suddenly realized that Ronald Reagan died on November 7th. As we speak both the Republican and Democratic parties are going profound transformations in their membership and leadership.
The Republicans are about ready to engage in a civil war between reality and fantasy based thinkers. Meanwhile, the Ds do not yet know how activated the youth are in this country and how different they are from their parents. Democratic youth are making common cause with Hispanics and LGBTs and enviros among other things.
You can see an example of what's happening invisibly on my latest blog. There is a great deal of reason to be optimistic now.
By the way, I voted for Jill Stein too.
As a political scientist, I see this election as the most significant since 1980. The GOP has suddenly realized that Ronald Reagan died on November 7th. As we speak both the Republican and Democratic parties are going profound transformations in their membership and leadership.
The Republicans are about ready to engage in a civil war between reality and fantasy based thinkers. Meanwhile, the Ds do not yet know how activated the youth are in this country and how different they are from their parents. Democratic youth are making common cause with Hispanics and LGBTs and enviros among other things.
You can see an example of what's happening invisibly on my latest blog. There is a great deal of reason to be optimistic now.
By the way, I voted for Jill Stein too.
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