So what wasn’t and isn’t seriously on the discussion table during the highly publicized presidential and vice-presidential debates this month which have averaged 70 or so million citizen viewers?
Poverty, homelessness, unemployment, white collar crime, foreclosures, racism and classism especially re prison populations, church over state usurpation of civil rights, devastation of cultural and physical public infrastructures through privatization and austerity under-funding or non-funding, torture accountability, drones, extrajudicial assassination, economic “sanctions” of foreigners causing massive suffering, illegitimate wars, the bloated military budget, death squad “diplomacy” a/k/a “humanitarian interventions”, military deaths and maimings (psychological and physical) and suicides, gun control, the dangers of nuclear power, nuclear armament, hydrofracking, legalization of medical and/or non-medical marijuana, veterans issues, erosion of women’s rights, union-busting, immigration, bank usury, colossal student debt, US CIA operatives and NATO special forces conspiring with Al Qaeda terrorists to achieve regime change in Libya and Syria, election fraud, gay rights, obscene amounts of money monopolizing media access by self-serving sociopathic corporatists, police state repression of the rights of free speech, assembly and privacy, escalating gratuitous and deadly police force, media blackouts of third party election candidates, US government enabling of countries such as Israel grossly violating human rights, escalation of weapons trading, private contractor exploitation of military funding, health industry profiteering at the cost of citizen welfare, etc., etc. etc.
The list could go on but I only had a minute.
Forgive me for not, in this blog at least, delving into the “lesser evil” game or even the “hang ANY moral issue but let’s talk who came off cooler and cleverer on the teebee.” The "magic box." The “idiot box" as my dad used to call it. From whence only and surreally the ultimate in superficial is now heralded.
What now passes for American journalism and “politics” is a total focus and obsession on “style” to the near exclusion of substance, and to the TOTAL exclusion of moral substance.
Part of this shallow and corrupt status quo regimen is a media seemingly scrambling to second guess what the reaction of “average” Americans is to what the media hails as significant political events and choices for us. How ironic, since we “average Americans” have been propagandized to an inch of our lives -- or, more accurately, souls -- by 24/7 pro-corporate propaganda blather. These corporate-media analyses of our supposed personal analyses are simply more exercises in amoral propaganda.
The reality is that the political, corporatist and corporate-media classes have been telling us for spiritually eroding decades now what to think and more importantly what to feel. No, let me rephrase that. What NOT to feel and HOW NOT TO FEEL.
I think back to the OJ trial outcome, where the gamesmanship of “winning” on legal technicalities, pr manipulation or tapping into racial backlash was translated for us by an amoral and hysterical media as what really counted. It was a turning point. It was the end of any corporate-media commitment to serious messaging of reality, decency and moral justice. The American media complex jumped the proverbial shark. Doomed us to the non-stop soul-less titlllating “info-tainment” that passes for national “communication” of relevant news and issues.
Our ruling political class ruled by a sociopathic corporate class and our amoral media also ruled by said sociopathic corporate class foster and celebrate “ends justifies the means” winning and style over substance -- over common sense and decency. We Americans are encouraged to leave our consciences at the door as we are offered the cheap bleachers of the national coliseum to play our prescribed roles as bloodlusting, schadenfreude, jingoistic supporters of America’s global or domestic often Orwellianly mislabelled contests such as “The War on Terror.” At the moment the contest is electing our choice for President of the United States.
OUR choice? That’s rich.
Inner sirens of cognitive dissonance is often as spiritually promising as it gets for most of us Americans. We feel impotent, cynical and/or numbed out. We feel overwhelmed by the hype. The propaganda. The robustly accepted and even celebrated anti-humane power brokers of corruption and profiteering.
We as a nation become further and further lost to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To proverbial truth, justice and the faux-American way. The American way hasn’t been about truth or justice for a good long while.
Caught in the undertow of ever-escalating amorality, we drift ever farther from the shores of a representative democracy. One more election time we the people will throw away another opportunity to rescue ourselves and our country. We “choose” to oblige the corporatists and their pimped out political and media agents, by snatching “sure doom” from the jaws of “recovery.” One more election cycle we get to declare our permission for our government to continue on in the wrong, amoral direction.
For a second there we thought Obama had led us to the right track going the right direction. God, we sure got punked on that one. But such recognition won’t stop a great number of us from voting for him again. After all, the guy who so slickly punked us is the supposed “lesser evil” one.
There have been significant numbers of Americans actually admitting to pollsters they recognize the country is going the WRONG direction! We have two legacy corporate party candidates who GUARANTEE we will stay on a WRONG TRACK yet another four years. Track A or Track B -- not all that far apart morally speaking -- going due "WRONG". Don’t spin my head with thoughts of the “less wrong” direction. A wrong direction is away from THE right direction! Moving along either wrong Track A or B takes us all farther and farther from the right direction.
Too bad our citizenry can’t begin to rally serious support for people READY, WILLING and ABLE -- like Jill Stein of the Green Party or other third party candidates -- to pursue the right direction. That tragically isn’t going to happen for yet ANOTHER four years thanks to our corporate-captured government, those pimped out political representatives on BOTH sides of the aisle (hang your lesser evilism rationales), our corporate-controlled media and way too many citizens apparently awaiting that perfect engraved invitation to get their asses in gear to actually save this country from fascism. We are a country with far too many citizens who lack will, common sense and a “citizen” identity.
Why won’t Americans trust third party candidates who refuse bribes, who refuse to put corporate needs over citizen ones? Many of these citizens claim they won’t trust these third party candidates because they are not robustly supported (let’s face it, not at all mentioned) by the corporate-media that is totally on the side of corporatists exploiting these very same citizens. DUH!!!
The blacking out by the CORPORATE-media of third party candidates is precisely what should make these candidates precious and attractive to us. These candidates want to champion and protect and assert OUR NEEDS and the needs of our descendants. The needs of our very globe. Please see that list at the beginning of this blog of issues the third party candidates are earnestly trying to put on the national discussion table. The many issues being insultingly and dangerously (for us, anyway) ignored by our politicians and our media.
Tragically too many of the media-hypnotized herd ignore their own self-interests and the interests of desperate fellow citizens and fellow global human beings. Since the interests of humanity are not addressed and prioritized by corporate-media they are neglected and ignored by these citizens.
If the CORPORATE-media doesn’t praise candidates who are trying to wrest illegitimate and obscene control from the corporatists, corporatists who are simultaneously economically raping the US citizenry and engineering massive global suffering and environmental devastation, most of our citizens won’t give an ounce of attention or support to the REAL CHAMPIONS of decency, humanity and progress!! Instead, these enthralled by corporate-media citizens further empower the evil corporate predators as well as these predators' political and media agents.
AND SO THE GREAT AMERICAN ETHICAL FREAKSHOW CONTINUES!
[cross-posted on correntewire and sacramento for democracy]
---------------
What is fascinating is the tsunamic surge in interpersonal communications through the internet and the massive distribution of communication devices to interlock individuals into communities. Although, to a large extent, this burgeoning system is replacing the older forms of non-participating rigidities such as newspapers and broadcast radio and TV I find it rather remarkable that no real cohesion of dynamic purposes beyond government and propaganda has resulted. Various nations are now in something of a panic to censor and distort this new freedom which has powerful potential but that potential has yet to manifest itself in truth and action. If that ever comes about all hell will break loose, hopefully for the better.
A typical Libby piece; eloquently stated, elegant in it's wording, and factually indisputable.
What STILL no "rat-basta*ds???
There have been some additional comments in my last blog, upon which You've already commented, some of which if You've not read them before, You may find of interest.
-R-
What STILL no "rat-basta*ds???
There have been some additional comments in my last blog, upon which You've already commented, some of which if You've not read them before, You may find of interest.
-R-
It's intriguing that with the availability of more information, which many had thought would lead to more informed voters, and perhaps it has but still not enough of them, has not really changed the political game much at all. It's difficult to determine whether it is due to willful refusal to recognize the games being played and by whose rules or if too many people are just too stupid, too disenfranchised, or both, to care.
Wonderful post. Sums up very eloquently the total moral bankruptcy of the American political system and the iron control Wall Street corporations exercise over public information. In my mind, our only salvation will be to turn our backs on all that - giving up our corporate jobs and corporate consumption for collective community-based lifestyles in which we rely on one another, rather than Wall Street, to meet our basic needs.
Of course you're right Libby. Media portrays "The Debates" as Theatre. Of the Obsurd. On the Marquee is "A 3 Round Fight". But a calculated Show - that ran for A Year & a Half! Obama balked & grew silent because - "Homey Don't Play That". Just like the Character in "In Living Color". He is really sick of the Charade he is asked to play. No question that The Green Party should of had ... A Speaking Part! R
Sorry Typo! Theatre of the Absurd. Best, Marilyn
Frankly, this sympathy for Obama as a victim of either the Republican monkey house or te previous administration is pretty nauseating. His enthusiasm for persecuting the truth tellers and sucking up to the financial monsters who are vandalizing the world economy aside from his initiatives for blowing innocent people to bits on the vaguest and most corrupt suspicions and declared right to assassinate people on whim makes him the hugest hypocrite in comparison to his idiot predecessor. There is nobody in power now who is not sickening and the opposition is even worse.
Jan, so great to see you.
You ask a serious question. Wouldn't ya think we could all get it together ... especially by now. We sane and humane ones. 8 years of god awful Bush and 4 years of Obama betrayal.
Your question reminds me of when I was at firedoglake and stood firm on single payer rather than the public option along with some strong and fine people and Jane Hamsher founder and her inner circle began to treat us with serious disdain as if we were obstructionists not fellow fighters. Hello??? Weren't we, both groups, supposedly fighting for empathetic and just health care for ALL?
This pragmatic incrementalism stance of the inner circle was where Jane et al. dug in their heels. Okay fine. But WTF, the people pushing for single payer who believed its time had come and were working earnestly were suddenly their enemy? How screwy? Why?
I began writing blogs there confronting them and asking WHY NOT work as a team and accept our given agendas but stay facing the same direction. Then I wrote a blog asking if it was about ego since Jane H. was the darling of "progressive tv" that was just beginning to hit its stride. I guess we all have egos and our own perfect answer. Anyway, that was not very diplomatic of me.
I also got in trouble with some health care workers via emails who when they found out how liberal I was in terms of anti-war they got very uncomfortable and i realized that many health care people activists were not necessarily on the left. They were good people who recognized a sane thing universal health care was but trusted the military powers that be and the administration to do the right thing with foreign policy. Oy vey.
My anti-war friends are very caught up in brave anti-war, anti-drone, free Manning, etc. activities, OWS people have their focus and my Green Party friends are very caught up in Green party activities, especially anti-nuke reactors and pro-union activities. I admit that OWS seemed to be a catalyst for all groups when they were pushing back. Maybe that is the organization to bring us all together.
We need a great big umbrella. How I wanted the Green Party to function as one since it is an international organization in a loose way. Jill Stein is fantastic. I hear good things, though, about Gary Johnson it is. And I read avidly the wsws website and let me tell you, the Socialist Equality Party is really on top of everything domestic and international. Their hard work and championing of the working class inspires. Jerry White is running for Prez on the SEP ticket. Bill Van Auken is also an awesome activist running against Gillibrand for senate on SEP ticket.
All these great people and the groups are like spines of an umbrella that is not open and overseeing yet. YET. Used to be the Dem party was the umbrella, yes, with its holes for sure, but our Dem populist umbrella turned into the Dem golden parachute reserved only for corporate sociopaths. We aint' got no serious Dem umbrella for when life rains on us. Wait til people see how holey obamacare is (not holy but holey).
What is it going to take, Jan?
And then we have the so called "pragmatic" Dems who are clinging to a rotten status quo. A party that has so profoundly betrayed us all and is still only being carried by its past. They have screwed unions and yet the union leaders are giving the Dem party potloads of their union dues. They screw unions and yet get union dues from the workers they screwed for their campaigns?
Sorry to go on so long. The answer is I don't know what it takes. I was hoping a Jill Stein could be a humane and decent and uncorruptible person, unlike Obama and the rest of the opportunistic pols, and get into the inside and start speaking TRUTH. How refreshing would that be. Just being pro-people, pro-planet, pro-peace, like what she promises. What a great foundation to begin with.
I thank God for the internet and for the brave and articulate people who get the big picture, as you say. It has the potential. May the rabid rat bastids (hey Mark) not get to pull the plug on us!!! God, with the media matrix so totally sold out and their most appealing faux-progressives on leashes of varying lengths, we need access to full truths not cherry picking party gamesmanship.
best, libby
You ask a serious question. Wouldn't ya think we could all get it together ... especially by now. We sane and humane ones. 8 years of god awful Bush and 4 years of Obama betrayal.
Your question reminds me of when I was at firedoglake and stood firm on single payer rather than the public option along with some strong and fine people and Jane Hamsher founder and her inner circle began to treat us with serious disdain as if we were obstructionists not fellow fighters. Hello??? Weren't we, both groups, supposedly fighting for empathetic and just health care for ALL?
This pragmatic incrementalism stance of the inner circle was where Jane et al. dug in their heels. Okay fine. But WTF, the people pushing for single payer who believed its time had come and were working earnestly were suddenly their enemy? How screwy? Why?
I began writing blogs there confronting them and asking WHY NOT work as a team and accept our given agendas but stay facing the same direction. Then I wrote a blog asking if it was about ego since Jane H. was the darling of "progressive tv" that was just beginning to hit its stride. I guess we all have egos and our own perfect answer. Anyway, that was not very diplomatic of me.
I also got in trouble with some health care workers via emails who when they found out how liberal I was in terms of anti-war they got very uncomfortable and i realized that many health care people activists were not necessarily on the left. They were good people who recognized a sane thing universal health care was but trusted the military powers that be and the administration to do the right thing with foreign policy. Oy vey.
My anti-war friends are very caught up in brave anti-war, anti-drone, free Manning, etc. activities, OWS people have their focus and my Green Party friends are very caught up in Green party activities, especially anti-nuke reactors and pro-union activities. I admit that OWS seemed to be a catalyst for all groups when they were pushing back. Maybe that is the organization to bring us all together.
We need a great big umbrella. How I wanted the Green Party to function as one since it is an international organization in a loose way. Jill Stein is fantastic. I hear good things, though, about Gary Johnson it is. And I read avidly the wsws website and let me tell you, the Socialist Equality Party is really on top of everything domestic and international. Their hard work and championing of the working class inspires. Jerry White is running for Prez on the SEP ticket. Bill Van Auken is also an awesome activist running against Gillibrand for senate on SEP ticket.
All these great people and the groups are like spines of an umbrella that is not open and overseeing yet. YET. Used to be the Dem party was the umbrella, yes, with its holes for sure, but our Dem populist umbrella turned into the Dem golden parachute reserved only for corporate sociopaths. We aint' got no serious Dem umbrella for when life rains on us. Wait til people see how holey obamacare is (not holy but holey).
What is it going to take, Jan?
And then we have the so called "pragmatic" Dems who are clinging to a rotten status quo. A party that has so profoundly betrayed us all and is still only being carried by its past. They have screwed unions and yet the union leaders are giving the Dem party potloads of their union dues. They screw unions and yet get union dues from the workers they screwed for their campaigns?
Sorry to go on so long. The answer is I don't know what it takes. I was hoping a Jill Stein could be a humane and decent and uncorruptible person, unlike Obama and the rest of the opportunistic pols, and get into the inside and start speaking TRUTH. How refreshing would that be. Just being pro-people, pro-planet, pro-peace, like what she promises. What a great foundation to begin with.
I thank God for the internet and for the brave and articulate people who get the big picture, as you say. It has the potential. May the rabid rat bastids (hey Mark) not get to pull the plug on us!!! God, with the media matrix so totally sold out and their most appealing faux-progressives on leashes of varying lengths, we need access to full truths not cherry picking party gamesmanship.
best, libby
Hey, Mark. Thanks for visiting!
Actually this was supposed to be the first paragraph of a blog about the VP debate. I do not have the stomach to watch Obama any more on the tv (I was grateful to read Matt Taibbi confess to the same sensitivity -- he has to read his transcripts) but I was able to catch most of the VP debate. So the above blog was my first paragraph of an introduction, okay then I went to one more paragraph of the intro, but then I was on a roll and kept on going and going without getting to the specifics about what I wanted to say about the two candidates. I realized I needed to pour out the moral indignation and focus on that. The big picture. Once you start wandering into the forest of the heart of darkness and the less evil vs. evil nuances you get con-fused ... "fused with" the matrix whereby war with Iran is a given, social security and medicare need to be messed with because of mass responsibility for our debt, when it is not our debt, the pols gave their corporate overlords over ten trillion dollars of OUR tax money and then they have the shameless gall to demand we lose pensions, pay rates, social security and decent insurance. Rat bastids is right, Mark!!!!
I hope to come back and put that one together.
I had been reading a bunch of articles about the debate, and the last one I read was written by Glenn Greenwald about where the interviewer was coming from and premises that deserved to be challenged as much as the two contenders and that really got me really revved up about the incredible amorality and how the bar for president has deplorably dropped. We thought that we had a potential hero and we got punked, and now the bar is at the betrayer level as being the best we can do? What disillusionment and moral surrender or denial that is so thick it is stunning!
I look forward to reading further comments on your blog, Mark! Thanks.
best, libby
:-)
Actually this was supposed to be the first paragraph of a blog about the VP debate. I do not have the stomach to watch Obama any more on the tv (I was grateful to read Matt Taibbi confess to the same sensitivity -- he has to read his transcripts) but I was able to catch most of the VP debate. So the above blog was my first paragraph of an introduction, okay then I went to one more paragraph of the intro, but then I was on a roll and kept on going and going without getting to the specifics about what I wanted to say about the two candidates. I realized I needed to pour out the moral indignation and focus on that. The big picture. Once you start wandering into the forest of the heart of darkness and the less evil vs. evil nuances you get con-fused ... "fused with" the matrix whereby war with Iran is a given, social security and medicare need to be messed with because of mass responsibility for our debt, when it is not our debt, the pols gave their corporate overlords over ten trillion dollars of OUR tax money and then they have the shameless gall to demand we lose pensions, pay rates, social security and decent insurance. Rat bastids is right, Mark!!!!
I hope to come back and put that one together.
I had been reading a bunch of articles about the debate, and the last one I read was written by Glenn Greenwald about where the interviewer was coming from and premises that deserved to be challenged as much as the two contenders and that really got me really revved up about the incredible amorality and how the bar for president has deplorably dropped. We thought that we had a potential hero and we got punked, and now the bar is at the betrayer level as being the best we can do? What disillusionment and moral surrender or denial that is so thick it is stunning!
I look forward to reading further comments on your blog, Mark! Thanks.
best, libby
:-)
Thanks for the rat-bastids, Libby. I'll presume that rat-bastids=rat-basta*ds and are subject to the same Libby copyright conditions (which means I can use them if I ever have the stomach to write, further).
Please DO come visit, Libby - there's some historical data I put together that if You've not seen it before is fairly eye opening (normally "humble" MIJ heads for the FAR LEFT corner of the room for unabashed self-boasting, as self-inflicted punishment.
Actually Jan sums up precisely why I constructed that post: "His enthusiasm for persecuting the truth tellers and sucking up to the financial monsters who are vandalizing the world economy aside from his initiatives for blowing innocent people to bits on the vaguest and most corrupt suspicions and declared right to assassinate people on whim makes him the hugest hypocrite in comparison to his idiot predecessor."
The first four quoted words are the words of one of the principled defenders of obama's worthiness.
Please DO come visit, Libby - there's some historical data I put together that if You've not seen it before is fairly eye opening (normally "humble" MIJ heads for the FAR LEFT corner of the room for unabashed self-boasting, as self-inflicted punishment.
Actually Jan sums up precisely why I constructed that post: "His enthusiasm for persecuting the truth tellers and sucking up to the financial monsters who are vandalizing the world economy aside from his initiatives for blowing innocent people to bits on the vaguest and most corrupt suspicions and declared right to assassinate people on whim makes him the hugest hypocrite in comparison to his idiot predecessor."
The first four quoted words are the words of one of the principled defenders of obama's worthiness.
BTW - It's an achievement I've seldom seen to have two Libby blogs in the top seven "most rated, last 4 hours" AND a third as an EP.
MANY congrats.
MANY congrats.
Rick, thanks so much for visiting and commenting! Your comment resonates what jan was getting at above. I assumed after 8 years of torturous Bush (his second election was such a punch in the gut, I could not believe he got another 4 years and I personally felt as sorrowful as if there had been a death in my family that election night) that we as a nation were so motivated and so sobered and so up to the gills morally outraged we would insist on repairing all that the Bush cabal had touched and corrupted. The torture program in particular as well as the horrifying wars were particularly vile and in need of accountability and recovery.
It was horrifyingly cruel for an Obama to step in as the second coming and immediately begin his reign of betrayals. Watching people suck up the betrayals stoically and over-patiently and rationalize them was another kind of cruelty and shock.
The boiled frogs incrementalism. Meanwhile Obama remained the darling of a crazymaking media that put personality over character and "truthiness" over reality, and the media was successful with too many competing successfully with the natural sirens of cognitive dissonance. We all have them if we were Dems during the Bush years. I don't get how Dems with conscience could tolerate what Obama has done. I really don't.
The Obama reality made us all have to face, though many haven't, that it was NOT just about Bush and the Repubs as a particularly evil group now gone. The lobbyists of the rabid rat bastard corporatists had the Dems selling out whole-heartedly, too. The contractors were feeding off the public trough and war was an enterprise for profit the hell with human lives.
We have no serious friends in DC. We have no serious friends tragically in all three branches!!!! We have no serious friends in either legacy corporate party. That is the horror!!!
The ferocious status quo re Dems does make me remember how years ago when I was attending college in CT I was in a working class neighborhood pamphleting door to door and the gentleman who opened the door listened to my candidate's stances. He turned red and started to yell at me in protest. I thought he was going to have a heart attack.
After going back and forth for a while I handed him the candidate's brochure. He looked down and said, "This guy is a Dem? Oh. Well, I've been voting Democrat all my life." He nodded goodbye civilly and I realized he would be voting Democratic even after he had spent 15 minutes ripping into me about the specifics about the candidate's positions. So it goes.
Too stupid or too disenfranchised or too cynical? I get the feeling "Lie to me" is the appeal of the Obama Dems at this point. The mean old Repubs are obstructionistic for sure, but the Dem pols have been trying to please the corporate overlords for three decades now and triangulating themselves as "good cops" of a rotten two branched game of getting over on the citizenry. I think they call it colossal hypocrisy.
The income of Congress I read somewhere has increased 11% since the rest of us since 2008 have taken a serious financial drubbing! That is sure telling. They have premier health care for themselves and their families for the rest of their lives. The payoffs and insider trading. They are the millionaire and billionaire class most of them (Biden one of the few not) and we the 99% are the "other" to them, so empathy is postured more than felt imho!
Thanks again!
best, libby
It was horrifyingly cruel for an Obama to step in as the second coming and immediately begin his reign of betrayals. Watching people suck up the betrayals stoically and over-patiently and rationalize them was another kind of cruelty and shock.
The boiled frogs incrementalism. Meanwhile Obama remained the darling of a crazymaking media that put personality over character and "truthiness" over reality, and the media was successful with too many competing successfully with the natural sirens of cognitive dissonance. We all have them if we were Dems during the Bush years. I don't get how Dems with conscience could tolerate what Obama has done. I really don't.
The Obama reality made us all have to face, though many haven't, that it was NOT just about Bush and the Repubs as a particularly evil group now gone. The lobbyists of the rabid rat bastard corporatists had the Dems selling out whole-heartedly, too. The contractors were feeding off the public trough and war was an enterprise for profit the hell with human lives.
We have no serious friends in DC. We have no serious friends tragically in all three branches!!!! We have no serious friends in either legacy corporate party. That is the horror!!!
The ferocious status quo re Dems does make me remember how years ago when I was attending college in CT I was in a working class neighborhood pamphleting door to door and the gentleman who opened the door listened to my candidate's stances. He turned red and started to yell at me in protest. I thought he was going to have a heart attack.
After going back and forth for a while I handed him the candidate's brochure. He looked down and said, "This guy is a Dem? Oh. Well, I've been voting Democrat all my life." He nodded goodbye civilly and I realized he would be voting Democratic even after he had spent 15 minutes ripping into me about the specifics about the candidate's positions. So it goes.
Too stupid or too disenfranchised or too cynical? I get the feeling "Lie to me" is the appeal of the Obama Dems at this point. The mean old Repubs are obstructionistic for sure, but the Dem pols have been trying to please the corporate overlords for three decades now and triangulating themselves as "good cops" of a rotten two branched game of getting over on the citizenry. I think they call it colossal hypocrisy.
The income of Congress I read somewhere has increased 11% since the rest of us since 2008 have taken a serious financial drubbing! That is sure telling. They have premier health care for themselves and their families for the rest of their lives. The payoffs and insider trading. They are the millionaire and billionaire class most of them (Biden one of the few not) and we the 99% are the "other" to them, so empathy is postured more than felt imho!
Thanks again!
best, libby
toritto, thanks for coming by. Yeah, said list. It poured out of me in a minute or two. i am sure i left off some vital things. but if i can come up with a national laundry list to be tended to in that short a time, what the hell are our politicians and journalists thinking about or willfully NOT thinking about.
All the hype how different the two parties are. Bullshit. They stand behind the status quo corrupt forces of our government. They are blaming and punishing us as their victims with all this austerity crap, watching us lose homes, and jobs, etc. after they paid out over $10 trillion to bail out the millionaires and billionaires, the very people who broke the economy, and who took stimulus money to make themselves more money.
And not only were they not held accountable, the rat bastids are still doing the financial shenanigans with impunity. Guess what, folks, the addicts are gonna crash us all soon and the codependent and bribed pols are gonna rip into our social security and medicare safety nets to give them more gambling money coverage and we, the 99%ers can eat shit and die as far as they are concerned!
Oh, and then they are like an international cartel these banksters and conglomerates, shaking down other countries for profit using our standing army as their profit hit people. .. no skin off their noses if thousands and thousands of people die and the turn sovereign countries into failed states. Using Al Qaeda forces to help in that -- well there is no word to describe how craven that is.
best, libby
All the hype how different the two parties are. Bullshit. They stand behind the status quo corrupt forces of our government. They are blaming and punishing us as their victims with all this austerity crap, watching us lose homes, and jobs, etc. after they paid out over $10 trillion to bail out the millionaires and billionaires, the very people who broke the economy, and who took stimulus money to make themselves more money.
And not only were they not held accountable, the rat bastids are still doing the financial shenanigans with impunity. Guess what, folks, the addicts are gonna crash us all soon and the codependent and bribed pols are gonna rip into our social security and medicare safety nets to give them more gambling money coverage and we, the 99%ers can eat shit and die as far as they are concerned!
Oh, and then they are like an international cartel these banksters and conglomerates, shaking down other countries for profit using our standing army as their profit hit people. .. no skin off their noses if thousands and thousands of people die and the turn sovereign countries into failed states. Using Al Qaeda forces to help in that -- well there is no word to describe how craven that is.
best, libby
Stuart, thanks for visiting! Moral bankruptcy sums it all up well. I like how you put this especially:
".. and the iron control Wall Street corporations exercise over public information."
Yes, that is what it is about. We of course are seduced by the tv as plug in drug and all the warm and fuzzy commentators working for the overlords. So convincing. And smiling generals and pols and administrators appear on an assembly line of pr shows, whether Fox or MSNBC or the NewsHour, they are all part of the system and create the illusion that we are involved and that the biggest lie we as citizens matter.
But what it comes down to is fascism. Control. Absolute puppeteering control. The public doesn't want wars. Yet the media drumbeats for war over and over and over. How many wars does Obama have going now? Six? And droning whereever he wants. Particularly Yemen and Pakistan. The ferocity of the Iran war propaganda drumbeats is incredible. And every time pols like McCain want to ramp up troop levels they bring up the poor plight of Muslim women in Afghanistan or Iraq. So shameless. As if they gave a shit in between sound bites.
A rational mind looking at the facts, primarily that Iran does not have nuclear weapons. The countries with what is it 400 for Israel and 2000 for US are insisting that the international community (which is bullshit ... the international community is not behind this) punish and cripple Iran because of an "existential threat" that is bullshit ... maybe tapping into some dangerous collective Israeli paranoia or not since it also conveniently is ever-distracting from Israeli human rights violations of Palestinians btw. So threaten war with a country that is not hurting any other countries by a country that is committing war crimes, well, make that two countries.
The US government's diabolical and continued lying to its citizens and the UN and other nations is nauseating. And its seducing other nations to join in on its international gangsterism.
Stuart, I have been reading a lot over at wsws about the war on the working class and I remember you talking about "identity politics" -- at least I think that is what it is called -- and how cultural issues are one thing to the faux-progressive elite which is good, but the faux-progressives are not bonding with the working class. Union working teachers for example who actually are professionals or used to be considered that before the Arne Duncan crowd began helping to extort public education funding for private investors. Anyway, the desperate workers of the lower classes, the working class as well as the homeless class can twist in the wind as far as more "pragmatic" and neolib progressives are concerned. It is chilling.
The focus is not on universal welfare. That used to be at least the pretense of the Dems. Now the common good, the public trust is rarely mentioned.
Stuart, the reckoning will be serious. And we will have to rely on each other and be courageous and empathetic to survive. I appreciate as always your groundedness and view of the big pic.
best, libby
".. and the iron control Wall Street corporations exercise over public information."
Yes, that is what it is about. We of course are seduced by the tv as plug in drug and all the warm and fuzzy commentators working for the overlords. So convincing. And smiling generals and pols and administrators appear on an assembly line of pr shows, whether Fox or MSNBC or the NewsHour, they are all part of the system and create the illusion that we are involved and that the biggest lie we as citizens matter.
But what it comes down to is fascism. Control. Absolute puppeteering control. The public doesn't want wars. Yet the media drumbeats for war over and over and over. How many wars does Obama have going now? Six? And droning whereever he wants. Particularly Yemen and Pakistan. The ferocity of the Iran war propaganda drumbeats is incredible. And every time pols like McCain want to ramp up troop levels they bring up the poor plight of Muslim women in Afghanistan or Iraq. So shameless. As if they gave a shit in between sound bites.
A rational mind looking at the facts, primarily that Iran does not have nuclear weapons. The countries with what is it 400 for Israel and 2000 for US are insisting that the international community (which is bullshit ... the international community is not behind this) punish and cripple Iran because of an "existential threat" that is bullshit ... maybe tapping into some dangerous collective Israeli paranoia or not since it also conveniently is ever-distracting from Israeli human rights violations of Palestinians btw. So threaten war with a country that is not hurting any other countries by a country that is committing war crimes, well, make that two countries.
The US government's diabolical and continued lying to its citizens and the UN and other nations is nauseating. And its seducing other nations to join in on its international gangsterism.
Stuart, I have been reading a lot over at wsws about the war on the working class and I remember you talking about "identity politics" -- at least I think that is what it is called -- and how cultural issues are one thing to the faux-progressive elite which is good, but the faux-progressives are not bonding with the working class. Union working teachers for example who actually are professionals or used to be considered that before the Arne Duncan crowd began helping to extort public education funding for private investors. Anyway, the desperate workers of the lower classes, the working class as well as the homeless class can twist in the wind as far as more "pragmatic" and neolib progressives are concerned. It is chilling.
The focus is not on universal welfare. That used to be at least the pretense of the Dems. Now the common good, the public trust is rarely mentioned.
Stuart, the reckoning will be serious. And we will have to rely on each other and be courageous and empathetic to survive. I appreciate as always your groundedness and view of the big pic.
best, libby
Marilyn, thanks for commenting and agreeing that Jill Stein would have indeed added to the depth and scope of the debates. Yes, she deserved a speaking part. Interestingly, Stein swept the floor with Romney in a debate when she ran for Gov. of MA.
Re Obama, I think he probably was overwhelmed by Romney's in your face colossal lying. To me I think Obama in one night got a taste of the his own medicine from Romney, the lying he so abundantly doled out to his campaign constituency and then took 4 years to torturously renege on.
Charade is the right word for what is allowed and what isn't allowed to be addressed on the "idiot box". We have so many craven collective games played on us via that magic box. We don't have national conversations. We have hype and propaganda heaped on us ad nauseam. It is a catalyst for massive desensitization. Look at the wars in our names with our tax dollars. Look at the theft of our treasury to enable white collar criminals still walking about enjoying stolen wealth -- our wealth, as the pols lecture us all on austerity and scare the younger generation that social security won't be there for them when it would be if the treasury had been left alone. And expanded medicare for all would work and save money, but the vendors bribed the pols so they are profiteering as citizens die. Obamacare is filled with holes that more and more people will find out about, sadly.
Every other industrial nation believes the government should supply universal health care. Michael Moore showed us that in that wonderful documentary SICKO. The US? Not even the Dems dared to dream we should have that. WTF?
Thanks for commenting!
best, libby
Re Obama, I think he probably was overwhelmed by Romney's in your face colossal lying. To me I think Obama in one night got a taste of the his own medicine from Romney, the lying he so abundantly doled out to his campaign constituency and then took 4 years to torturously renege on.
Charade is the right word for what is allowed and what isn't allowed to be addressed on the "idiot box". We have so many craven collective games played on us via that magic box. We don't have national conversations. We have hype and propaganda heaped on us ad nauseam. It is a catalyst for massive desensitization. Look at the wars in our names with our tax dollars. Look at the theft of our treasury to enable white collar criminals still walking about enjoying stolen wealth -- our wealth, as the pols lecture us all on austerity and scare the younger generation that social security won't be there for them when it would be if the treasury had been left alone. And expanded medicare for all would work and save money, but the vendors bribed the pols so they are profiteering as citizens die. Obamacare is filled with holes that more and more people will find out about, sadly.
Every other industrial nation believes the government should supply universal health care. Michael Moore showed us that in that wonderful documentary SICKO. The US? Not even the Dems dared to dream we should have that. WTF?
Thanks for commenting!
best, libby
Jan, you get no argument from me re the monstrousness of Obama's actions. So many fresh hells at his hands. One recently Eric Holder's exonerating Goldman Sachs from prosecution from the economic crash even taking on an inept Congress that actually worked two years on a report citing the violations -- Levin did his homework on this and deserves points. But then obama is in your face crony to Goldman Sachs takes them off the hook as the statute of limitations for those crimes runs out. Hello America! Does anyone care?
The banksters Obama sold out to. They are shifting now to Romney, the big money. No matter who wins, they will be holding their strings.
Obama had signed on board. And not only is he a puppet, he is very much a decider of evil things. Obama is droning innocent people. And ONLY prosecuting whistle blowers with ferocity. You are right. His kill lists? Who is on them? Enemies of corporate exploitation all over the world? Foreign union workers trying to raise wage levels for fellow countrypeople or people fighting the corrupt client puppets put in power by the US and NATO who don't give a serious shit about welfare of people? Profits uber alles. Power and control uber alles. Peace? What is that. A post-diplomacy world. And any American he deigns to kill Obama assumes that power -- forget habeas corpus that has been around for centuries. But in our democracy Obama rips out pages of the constitution the same way Bush did, but Obama does it in your face and people deny and minimize and no one seriously calls him out. Not journalists and not Republican rat bastards. Of course not. They call him out for delusional stuff and the real moral infractions ... they don't see either.
Why on earth is Obama's anti-constitutional behavior not an issue with every progressive at least in America? God damn. They are willing to re-elect him when he actually deserves impeachment. As did his predecessor.
Oprah likes Obama and he is so charming on the View. Forget the war crimes and the white collar crimes. The poverty and the homelessness. The dead and wounded and displaced in countries where people were just trying to live out their lives like us in peace.
How tragic that this man with such compromised character is the first African American president. That factor added to the denial and to Obama's Trojan Horse seduction and continuing over-protection by citizens lost in the bargaining stage of grief imho.
best, libby
The banksters Obama sold out to. They are shifting now to Romney, the big money. No matter who wins, they will be holding their strings.
Obama had signed on board. And not only is he a puppet, he is very much a decider of evil things. Obama is droning innocent people. And ONLY prosecuting whistle blowers with ferocity. You are right. His kill lists? Who is on them? Enemies of corporate exploitation all over the world? Foreign union workers trying to raise wage levels for fellow countrypeople or people fighting the corrupt client puppets put in power by the US and NATO who don't give a serious shit about welfare of people? Profits uber alles. Power and control uber alles. Peace? What is that. A post-diplomacy world. And any American he deigns to kill Obama assumes that power -- forget habeas corpus that has been around for centuries. But in our democracy Obama rips out pages of the constitution the same way Bush did, but Obama does it in your face and people deny and minimize and no one seriously calls him out. Not journalists and not Republican rat bastards. Of course not. They call him out for delusional stuff and the real moral infractions ... they don't see either.
Why on earth is Obama's anti-constitutional behavior not an issue with every progressive at least in America? God damn. They are willing to re-elect him when he actually deserves impeachment. As did his predecessor.
Oprah likes Obama and he is so charming on the View. Forget the war crimes and the white collar crimes. The poverty and the homelessness. The dead and wounded and displaced in countries where people were just trying to live out their lives like us in peace.
How tragic that this man with such compromised character is the first African American president. That factor added to the denial and to Obama's Trojan Horse seduction and continuing over-protection by citizens lost in the bargaining stage of grief imho.
best, libby
Let’s see if I can say this as courteously and respectfully as possible, Libby.
You seem to think that because you can see the obvious problems we face…your solutions to the problems have to be better than the solutions the people you erroneously suppose do not see the problems have for those problems.
We see the problems, Libby. It is not just the ranters who see them. But some of us see that magical, impractical, unrealistic solutions are of no more help as solutions than the endless lamenting some of you good folk do about the problems.
You acknowledge you were wrong in thinking Barack Obama would set things straight…that we would be traveling a different road with him at the wheel.
I NEVER FOR A MOMENT THOUGHT THAT. I was never that naïve. I recognized that the mechanics of government precluded a huge course change…and that all Obama would do is to get as much as possible out of the sow’s ear with which he was working.
Jill Stein and the Greens are not corrupt because the money is simply not being offered to them. If they had a snowballs chance in Hell of making any inroads, the money would be coming their way…AND WELCOMED WITH OPEN POCKETS.
Jill Stein is not the answer. Jill Stein is another magical, impractical, unrealistic pretence of a solution to problems the people offering her ought not even to be dealing with. They truly are not practical or reasonable or realistic enough to make decent suggestions for how the problems ought to be handled.
I have no problem with the small group who meet to applaud you (and thereby applaud themselves), but this is going nowhere. You are, with all the respect in the world, as wrong about Jill Stein as a solution as you were about Barack Obama.
You and these others here ought really to consider the wisdom of not making the same mistake over and over.
You seem to think that because you can see the obvious problems we face…your solutions to the problems have to be better than the solutions the people you erroneously suppose do not see the problems have for those problems.
We see the problems, Libby. It is not just the ranters who see them. But some of us see that magical, impractical, unrealistic solutions are of no more help as solutions than the endless lamenting some of you good folk do about the problems.
You acknowledge you were wrong in thinking Barack Obama would set things straight…that we would be traveling a different road with him at the wheel.
I NEVER FOR A MOMENT THOUGHT THAT. I was never that naïve. I recognized that the mechanics of government precluded a huge course change…and that all Obama would do is to get as much as possible out of the sow’s ear with which he was working.
Jill Stein and the Greens are not corrupt because the money is simply not being offered to them. If they had a snowballs chance in Hell of making any inroads, the money would be coming their way…AND WELCOMED WITH OPEN POCKETS.
Jill Stein is not the answer. Jill Stein is another magical, impractical, unrealistic pretence of a solution to problems the people offering her ought not even to be dealing with. They truly are not practical or reasonable or realistic enough to make decent suggestions for how the problems ought to be handled.
I have no problem with the small group who meet to applaud you (and thereby applaud themselves), but this is going nowhere. You are, with all the respect in the world, as wrong about Jill Stein as a solution as you were about Barack Obama.
You and these others here ought really to consider the wisdom of not making the same mistake over and over.
Mark, I am still working my way over to your wonderful thread.
You make me laugh with the rat bastards reference. You know I used to use that more heavily when I referred to the Dems as rat bastards and the Republicans as rabid rat bastards. I think that applies but the lesser evil thing makes me want to keep hammering at the Dems. Yeah Romney and Ryan are frightening, but so the hell is Obama and the Dems with their austerity crap and union busting and war mongering. Slimey Rahm in Chicago, the center of Dem power, is union busting up a storm and demonizing teachers and feigning concern for the children of Chicago when he just wants to help the privatization pirates!!!
Thanks for your enthusiasm with my postings on the board. yeah, that is my second EP and nice to have so many views. With the spam the blogs travel fast now through the 40 pages.
With the one above, I wondered if it would get read. Usually I offer more facts with my angryopinions. I was ready with my quotes re the vp debate but then I let loose in general. As I am still doing with the comments!
best, libby
You make me laugh with the rat bastards reference. You know I used to use that more heavily when I referred to the Dems as rat bastards and the Republicans as rabid rat bastards. I think that applies but the lesser evil thing makes me want to keep hammering at the Dems. Yeah Romney and Ryan are frightening, but so the hell is Obama and the Dems with their austerity crap and union busting and war mongering. Slimey Rahm in Chicago, the center of Dem power, is union busting up a storm and demonizing teachers and feigning concern for the children of Chicago when he just wants to help the privatization pirates!!!
Thanks for your enthusiasm with my postings on the board. yeah, that is my second EP and nice to have so many views. With the spam the blogs travel fast now through the 40 pages.
With the one above, I wondered if it would get read. Usually I offer more facts with my angryopinions. I was ready with my quotes re the vp debate but then I let loose in general. As I am still doing with the comments!
best, libby
Frank,
I am forgetting who recently quoted this to me. TimingLogic?
“All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take.” Gandhi
Jill Stein and the Green Party would protect and honor fundamentals.
Frank, Obama broke has broken domestic law, international law, ethical law. Indefensibly. The fact that he has so many denying apologists is an indication of mass pathology. You and others are choosing to compromise also on fundamentals that should not be compromised. That is more than "pragmatic" Frank. That is enabling evil.
best, libby
I am forgetting who recently quoted this to me. TimingLogic?
“All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take.” Gandhi
Jill Stein and the Green Party would protect and honor fundamentals.
Frank, Obama broke has broken domestic law, international law, ethical law. Indefensibly. The fact that he has so many denying apologists is an indication of mass pathology. You and others are choosing to compromise also on fundamentals that should not be compromised. That is more than "pragmatic" Frank. That is enabling evil.
best, libby
There are two takes on what is going on, one the conventional media, and one, the social media. The president may have a Blackberry, but he worries a lot about what they say on Fox. He's so... political. He cares too much about polls, and pundits. That gives me some hope for him, though. If there are enough voices demanding change, I think he will be listening. That's what it seemed to me he was doing during the Debate. Listening to his opponent. Maybe next time, he'll deliver. I'm still hoping.
Your list of what they are NOT talking about is a very telling statement. If any of those questions started popping up, it would melt the cosmetics off of Romney's face immediately. They both would have to come up with some real answers. Nothing they could write down on a napkin, ahead of time.
Thanks, very much, for this post!
Your list of what they are NOT talking about is a very telling statement. If any of those questions started popping up, it would melt the cosmetics off of Romney's face immediately. They both would have to come up with some real answers. Nothing they could write down on a napkin, ahead of time.
Thanks, very much, for this post!
Thanks for the post. As you so aptly imply, it is simply stunning that both the U.S. and the world face the issues we do, and the American body politic preoccupies itself with such superficialities. I'm new to this community and currently considering topics for a few posts. You've convinced me that one should be making a case for a viable third party in the U.S. I really do believe that the majority of us (on both "sides" of the current political fence) would welcome intelligent discussion of the real issues confronting us. But maybe it's just wishful thinking...
Thanks again.
B
Thanks again.
B
@ Libby:
Jill Stein and the Green Party would protect and honor fundamentals.
Yeah...and you were sure Barack Obama would live up to (what I consider) your unrealistic expectations.
There is absolutely no reason to suppose Jill Stein and the Green Party would not succumb to the same temptations and temptations the other parties have.
Some people just never learn.
Jill Stein and the Green Party would protect and honor fundamentals.
Yeah...and you were sure Barack Obama would live up to (what I consider) your unrealistic expectations.
There is absolutely no reason to suppose Jill Stein and the Green Party would not succumb to the same temptations and temptations the other parties have.
Some people just never learn.
Make that second "temptations"...inducements!
Steven, nice to see you! Thanks for comment. Obama was the one who encouraged the left to keep his feet to the fire. But that was a cruel tease. Obama looked forward and right and cold-shouldered the left whom he would not have gotten into office without them and their anti-war support especially. Hypocrisy is so thick with Obama it is nauseating.
You are right, he is driven by polls and by the tv and by the corporate overlords who bought him off for practically nothing during his 2008 campaign when you consider their returns after four years. Returns of profiteering as well as legal non-accountability.
There is something chilling in the non-empathy Obama has for average Americans and poor Americans and the deportation statistics are stunning. He is like the nouveau riche or a political hack. A special heartlessness. It is heartbreaking.
I agree with you about Romney! And Ryan is terrifying especially. The veneer of empathy is so thin, pulled out for a sound bite on a debate. As I have said, I can't believe how total the blackout was on third party candidates in the media. And I am particularly po'd with the MSNBC corporate media that should be ashamed to claim the label "progressive." Bull shit.
best, libby
You are right, he is driven by polls and by the tv and by the corporate overlords who bought him off for practically nothing during his 2008 campaign when you consider their returns after four years. Returns of profiteering as well as legal non-accountability.
There is something chilling in the non-empathy Obama has for average Americans and poor Americans and the deportation statistics are stunning. He is like the nouveau riche or a political hack. A special heartlessness. It is heartbreaking.
I agree with you about Romney! And Ryan is terrifying especially. The veneer of empathy is so thin, pulled out for a sound bite on a debate. As I have said, I can't believe how total the blackout was on third party candidates in the media. And I am particularly po'd with the MSNBC corporate media that should be ashamed to claim the label "progressive." Bull shit.
best, libby
Bob, welcome to open salon! I'm sure you'll be an exciting addition to this community! Looking forward to reading your upcoming blogs. Third party voices need our voices to further them. best, libby
Frank,
There is no QUID PRO QUO deal-making with corporate overlords with Stein's campaign.
She will not and has not sold her soul to corporations like Goldman Sachs as Obama had.
I worked for John Edwards in 2008 and when he dropped out I worked at the very end for Obama. I was heartbroken about Edwards' choices of course. i supported him because he was the candidate speaking about some of those issues I listed at the beginning of the blog. I was especially sick of Bill Clinton's never seeming to acknowledge homelessness in America, to avoid freaking out the especially self-protective Randian righties. And Obama and H. Clinton did not address homelessness. At best they mentioned the "middle class" which was so telling that the working and poorer classes would get short shrift from them.
When I switched to support for Obama it was more hope than trust, and it was his anti-war posture that was only that, POSTURE.
Obama did not honor the support, people and monetary, from the small fry Americans. But he signed his soul away to the corporate monsters who are profits uber alles. And he encouraged and enabled those same kinds of people in his administration like Geithner and Summers and Emanuel.
Dr. Stein is a particular advocate for protecting the environment. The lack of accountability Obama granted to BP is just one more fresh hell for America and the planet. And he was a drill baby drill guy as much as S. Palin.
Obama promised reform and he was the last person to have the will and the independence to begin to give it to us. When he accuses Romney of flip flopping it is sickening. They both are political chameleons.
best, libby
There is no QUID PRO QUO deal-making with corporate overlords with Stein's campaign.
She will not and has not sold her soul to corporations like Goldman Sachs as Obama had.
I worked for John Edwards in 2008 and when he dropped out I worked at the very end for Obama. I was heartbroken about Edwards' choices of course. i supported him because he was the candidate speaking about some of those issues I listed at the beginning of the blog. I was especially sick of Bill Clinton's never seeming to acknowledge homelessness in America, to avoid freaking out the especially self-protective Randian righties. And Obama and H. Clinton did not address homelessness. At best they mentioned the "middle class" which was so telling that the working and poorer classes would get short shrift from them.
When I switched to support for Obama it was more hope than trust, and it was his anti-war posture that was only that, POSTURE.
Obama did not honor the support, people and monetary, from the small fry Americans. But he signed his soul away to the corporate monsters who are profits uber alles. And he encouraged and enabled those same kinds of people in his administration like Geithner and Summers and Emanuel.
Dr. Stein is a particular advocate for protecting the environment. The lack of accountability Obama granted to BP is just one more fresh hell for America and the planet. And he was a drill baby drill guy as much as S. Palin.
Obama promised reform and he was the last person to have the will and the independence to begin to give it to us. When he accuses Romney of flip flopping it is sickening. They both are political chameleons.
best, libby
Libby - the MSM is doing a fine job of covering all the issues. Just the other day CNN's Don Lemon had a debate between Libertarian Gary Johnson and Green Jill Stein. Alright, so what that the debate was only 8 minutes, most of it Don Lemon talking. But this just shows that CNN is fair and balanced. Or is that Fox? Never mind the fact that it was on at 8pm on a Saturday night when no one is watching. The funny thing is, Jill Stein said more about the issues and had more substance to her comments in the less than four minutes she was given than either of the 2 corporate candidates have said the entire election campaign.
Frank - The Green Party doesn't accept corporate donations so that would be one major reason to believe the Greens would not be able to be tempted to stray from their principles. Unlike Obomber who accepts millions from Wall Street, big oil, big pharma, et al.
Frank - The Green Party doesn't accept corporate donations so that would be one major reason to believe the Greens would not be able to be tempted to stray from their principles. Unlike Obomber who accepts millions from Wall Street, big oil, big pharma, et al.
@ Libby:
There is no QUID PRO QUO deal-making with corporate overlords with Stein's campaign.
She will not and has not sold her soul to corporations like Goldman Sachs as Obama had.
@ Alaska Progressive:
The Green Party doesn't accept corporate donations so that would be one major reason to believe the Greens would not be able to be tempted to stray from their principles. Unlike Obomber who accepts millions from Wall Street, big oil, big pharma, et al.
Without overdoing this, allow me to say this as respectfully as possible:
Both of these suggestions about Stein and the Greens is sorta like me suggesting that I will not accept any invitations from Jessica Alba to go to bed with her.
What overtures have corporations made to give money to Jill Stein or to the Greens? Why would they do that?
The Greens are not accepting money from corporate America because no significant (if any at all) money is coming from corporate America to them. Corporate America realizes they are losers…that at the end of this election cycle, Dr. Jill Stein will still be Dr. Jill Stein…and either the Republican or Democrat candidate will be president of the United States.
If the Greens ever managed to work themselves into any significant power…the money would be offered—and there is no logical reason to suppose it would not be accepted.
I understand, appreciate, and respect your frustration with what is happening right now, but your solution is to champion third parties is like being on Titanic trying to figure out which deck chair would be the safest place to sit.
There is no QUID PRO QUO deal-making with corporate overlords with Stein's campaign.
She will not and has not sold her soul to corporations like Goldman Sachs as Obama had.
@ Alaska Progressive:
The Green Party doesn't accept corporate donations so that would be one major reason to believe the Greens would not be able to be tempted to stray from their principles. Unlike Obomber who accepts millions from Wall Street, big oil, big pharma, et al.
Without overdoing this, allow me to say this as respectfully as possible:
Both of these suggestions about Stein and the Greens is sorta like me suggesting that I will not accept any invitations from Jessica Alba to go to bed with her.
What overtures have corporations made to give money to Jill Stein or to the Greens? Why would they do that?
The Greens are not accepting money from corporate America because no significant (if any at all) money is coming from corporate America to them. Corporate America realizes they are losers…that at the end of this election cycle, Dr. Jill Stein will still be Dr. Jill Stein…and either the Republican or Democrat candidate will be president of the United States.
If the Greens ever managed to work themselves into any significant power…the money would be offered—and there is no logical reason to suppose it would not be accepted.
I understand, appreciate, and respect your frustration with what is happening right now, but your solution is to champion third parties is like being on Titanic trying to figure out which deck chair would be the safest place to sit.
Therefor, Frank, you say you are voting for Obama. I find your logic rather odd, to say the least.
Since Clinton's first term the poll numbers for Congress have been about 14% approval. Sometimes as low as 8%, sometimes a little higher. People disconnect from that level of disenfranchisement when they end up voting for Dummycrats and the RepubliKKKlan. The question is why.
There has to be an overarching reason that has some commonality even if there are many factors dependent on the individual. I think it's clearly cognitive dissonance as you note above. Most are still attempting to rationalize reality and truth with the dominant belief system of the self or our left brain. A belief system that is based on delusions of America being this shining beacon high on a hill. And, the delusions that are driven by fear. Fear of change and what it means for me.
America is the beacon high on a hill. It's just that the crooks in politics and in the corner offices of multinational corporations and banks don't share the values of a free and democratic society.
"In dictatorships you need courage to fight evil; in the free world you need courage to see evil." --Natan Sharansky, Soviet dissident, Gulag survivor, author of Fear No Evil
One or two more major crises of confidence will more than likely push most people over the edge and shatter their belief systems. It will give them the courage to see evil. It takes personal crisis to affect social change on a massive scale. More and more are experiencing their own personal crisis or crisis of a friend or family member associated with political corruption, lack of economic opportunity, etc. Once those belief systems are truly shattered, the new Age of Enlightenment will gain mainstream force of change.
There has to be an overarching reason that has some commonality even if there are many factors dependent on the individual. I think it's clearly cognitive dissonance as you note above. Most are still attempting to rationalize reality and truth with the dominant belief system of the self or our left brain. A belief system that is based on delusions of America being this shining beacon high on a hill. And, the delusions that are driven by fear. Fear of change and what it means for me.
America is the beacon high on a hill. It's just that the crooks in politics and in the corner offices of multinational corporations and banks don't share the values of a free and democratic society.
"In dictatorships you need courage to fight evil; in the free world you need courage to see evil." --Natan Sharansky, Soviet dissident, Gulag survivor, author of Fear No Evil
One or two more major crises of confidence will more than likely push most people over the edge and shatter their belief systems. It will give them the courage to see evil. It takes personal crisis to affect social change on a massive scale. More and more are experiencing their own personal crisis or crisis of a friend or family member associated with political corruption, lack of economic opportunity, etc. Once those belief systems are truly shattered, the new Age of Enlightenment will gain mainstream force of change.
By the way, Frank, you need to pull your head out of your ass. Because the rationalizations and dissonance used to justify a vote for Obama show you are quite capable of deluding yourself into anything. Including voting for someone who selectively murders people without any due process or regard for constitutional authority. That makes you an accomplice to murder.
Thought I would swing back around to see more of the comments. One thing I find overwhelming is the manner in which Obamney's supporters insist that, even though they know Obamney isn't the answer to our problems, we still must be realistic and re-elect him. The complete silliness of that position needs no further exposure.
So on November 9 there will be some 40 million accomplices to murder in the US and territories? Get a grip on the rhetoric, man. If not you will have to extend that to almost everyone who dabbles in the stockmarket, even passive investors who are hoping their retirement funds will revive enough for them to live out their years in comfort.
Ain't it the truth! Ain't it the truth! An inch wide and an inch deep. Do we all really need 261 days of screeching propaganda. And who the hell cares about polls? I do not believe the polls. Polls cost money and people spend money for results. Give me a question, tell me the answer you want, and I am certain I can find or create a poll that will tell you the majority thinks they way you want. Much of what you was was also expressed by Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone recently. Do take a look. The debates are an insult to our intelligence and, frankly, Obama was not going to take to tainted bait.
I agree with most of the criticism left and right on the debate but, hold it right there: did Obama really win but we are all too dim to get it? I just can not forget that Cheshire grin. Not suppressed mocking laughter (which might have been warranted) but a wise tolerance we so seldom see, and need to see, in a statesman.
Talk about turning the other cheek?! What is a gentleman and diplomat to do when a slick, puffed-up hustler, utterly full-of-himself, lies in one’s face with a patronizing smile? How breathtaking. My jaw dropped open. Puffing is one thing but fraudulent intent is quite another! Surely Obama knew Romney’s empty cock’s crow about the ‘preexisting conditions’ exception was raw bullshit. Romney! All that pompous pelf but no class. What? Is Obama going to call Romney the despicable liar and hustler that he is and then, after the debate, greet the man’s wife, shake hands with his kids, and look them in the eye when they should be humiliated by Romney’s sleazy hustle? Or does he rise above it and just smile back at the deliberate insult to intelligence while giving journalists and US the credit to be able to vet bald claptrap for ourselves?
Well, he wisely did the latter and kept a cool, tolerant, head when any man would have a right to smack-down an arrogant liar to take the hot air out of his sails. For now Obama let him save-face. Romney even disrespected Jim Leher whom he patronized like a country club door man.
Sorry but right now ‘winner’ sits on Obama’s head as confidently as a silk hat on a Bedford billionaire. Romney is a fraud of Chaucerian proportion while Obama stays centered on the ‘better angels of our nature’. We don’t need for Obama to call him a liar when any nincompoop can figure that out for themselves. Indeed! As every nincompoop did!
Obama is the master games-man. He is biding his time. He will not make a fool of Romney but let Romney make a fool of himself ...poisoned by his own tainted bait. I just feel so certain about that. And Biden will take down Ryan as easily as a stallion’s tail dispels a gadfly.
And then Biden laughs in the smirking face of Ryan and end debate. A debate about almost none of the things we are really concerned about. No questions answered. R!
I agree with most of the criticism left and right on the debate but, hold it right there: did Obama really win but we are all too dim to get it? I just can not forget that Cheshire grin. Not suppressed mocking laughter (which might have been warranted) but a wise tolerance we so seldom see, and need to see, in a statesman.
Talk about turning the other cheek?! What is a gentleman and diplomat to do when a slick, puffed-up hustler, utterly full-of-himself, lies in one’s face with a patronizing smile? How breathtaking. My jaw dropped open. Puffing is one thing but fraudulent intent is quite another! Surely Obama knew Romney’s empty cock’s crow about the ‘preexisting conditions’ exception was raw bullshit. Romney! All that pompous pelf but no class. What? Is Obama going to call Romney the despicable liar and hustler that he is and then, after the debate, greet the man’s wife, shake hands with his kids, and look them in the eye when they should be humiliated by Romney’s sleazy hustle? Or does he rise above it and just smile back at the deliberate insult to intelligence while giving journalists and US the credit to be able to vet bald claptrap for ourselves?
Well, he wisely did the latter and kept a cool, tolerant, head when any man would have a right to smack-down an arrogant liar to take the hot air out of his sails. For now Obama let him save-face. Romney even disrespected Jim Leher whom he patronized like a country club door man.
Sorry but right now ‘winner’ sits on Obama’s head as confidently as a silk hat on a Bedford billionaire. Romney is a fraud of Chaucerian proportion while Obama stays centered on the ‘better angels of our nature’. We don’t need for Obama to call him a liar when any nincompoop can figure that out for themselves. Indeed! As every nincompoop did!
Obama is the master games-man. He is biding his time. He will not make a fool of Romney but let Romney make a fool of himself ...poisoned by his own tainted bait. I just feel so certain about that. And Biden will take down Ryan as easily as a stallion’s tail dispels a gadfly.
And then Biden laughs in the smirking face of Ryan and end debate. A debate about almost none of the things we are really concerned about. No questions answered. R!
@ Jan: Therefor, Frank, you say you are voting for Obama. I find your logic rather odd, to say the least.
I don’t understand what you find “odd” about it. I think Obama has done as good a job as anyone could have done during the last several years considering the toxic political climate in which he is working…and considering the sensibilities of the majority of Americans. Keep in mind that Americans are considering shoving Obama out, Jan…and putting in his stead someone much more bellicose.
@ Rick Lucke: The complete silliness of that position needs no further exposure.
Ah…voting for the candidate you feel is the better of the two viable candidates offered is completely silly…but voting for someone who does not have a chance at election and whose vote count may very well put into office a conservative Republican is not silly. Rick, you used to reason more logically.
@ Timing Logic: By the way, Frank, you need to pull your head out of your ass.
I am always astonished that your side has such difficulty saying “I disagree with you” without showing such lack of class. In any case, my head is not up my ass…nor is it in the sand. I am dealing with reality. There is a lot to be said for doing that, TL.
I don’t understand what you find “odd” about it. I think Obama has done as good a job as anyone could have done during the last several years considering the toxic political climate in which he is working…and considering the sensibilities of the majority of Americans. Keep in mind that Americans are considering shoving Obama out, Jan…and putting in his stead someone much more bellicose.
@ Rick Lucke: The complete silliness of that position needs no further exposure.
Ah…voting for the candidate you feel is the better of the two viable candidates offered is completely silly…but voting for someone who does not have a chance at election and whose vote count may very well put into office a conservative Republican is not silly. Rick, you used to reason more logically.
@ Timing Logic: By the way, Frank, you need to pull your head out of your ass.
I am always astonished that your side has such difficulty saying “I disagree with you” without showing such lack of class. In any case, my head is not up my ass…nor is it in the sand. I am dealing with reality. There is a lot to be said for doing that, TL.
Sorry. I meant Biden took take down Ryan as easily as a stallion’s tail dispels a gadfly.
If reality, Frank, is enthusiastic approval for a leader who demanded and got the right to kill anyone he suspects of being disloyal without legal right to appeal and with no pressure by the opposing Republicans, then, Frank I can only make a reasonable guess as to where you keep your head.
Although I voted for Obama, I have many concerns about what he has done. However, in the current situation of our election process, we have not gotten to a point where there is a viable third party candidate.
It is therefore my belief that not voting for Obama is a vote for Romney. He and Ryan scare the crap out of me. They do not live in the real world where most of us reside. They are financially dishonest. Romney does all he can to not contribute his portion to the tax base. (Just how many millions does anyone need, really?) They also seem eager to wage another war with Iran. That defines insanity for me.
I admire anyone who refuses to compromise their beliefs and chooses to vote for a third or fourth party candidate. But in reality that vote only helps your conscience. I am afraid it will not keep Romney out of power.
It is therefore my belief that not voting for Obama is a vote for Romney. He and Ryan scare the crap out of me. They do not live in the real world where most of us reside. They are financially dishonest. Romney does all he can to not contribute his portion to the tax base. (Just how many millions does anyone need, really?) They also seem eager to wage another war with Iran. That defines insanity for me.
I admire anyone who refuses to compromise their beliefs and chooses to vote for a third or fourth party candidate. But in reality that vote only helps your conscience. I am afraid it will not keep Romney out of power.
Frank, according to you:
Logic – stating a particular candidate is not the answer to problems and then saying he must be re-elected
Logic – insisting that playing by rules that are stacked against you is reasonable
Logic – self-delusional thinking that a choice of rhetoric, rather than action, is a meaningful choice on major issues; in other words, a non-choice is actually a choice
The bottom line at this point is that you and those like you are lulled into the delusion that these so-called “viable candidates” – according to the rules that are set by those who undermine your (and everyone else’s) best interests – actually act differently on major issues.
The sad truth for all of us is that until things get worse they will not get better and since fear and a false sense of loyalty to a Party brand guide the majority of voters, both Republican and Democrat, the likelihood that things will actually improve in our lifetimes becomes more remote with each successive voting cycle. The corporatists, Dems and Repubs, have infiltrated both “viable” parties and are gradually gaining more control and that will not lead to anything good for a majority of humanity.
We’ve come to a point where congressional Democrats are totally useless and the congressional Republicans have gone completely insane, so there is your “choice – useless versus insane. There is nothing “logical” about continuing to support that scenario with votes unless you agree with what they are doing.
Logic – stating a particular candidate is not the answer to problems and then saying he must be re-elected
Logic – insisting that playing by rules that are stacked against you is reasonable
Logic – self-delusional thinking that a choice of rhetoric, rather than action, is a meaningful choice on major issues; in other words, a non-choice is actually a choice
The bottom line at this point is that you and those like you are lulled into the delusion that these so-called “viable candidates” – according to the rules that are set by those who undermine your (and everyone else’s) best interests – actually act differently on major issues.
The sad truth for all of us is that until things get worse they will not get better and since fear and a false sense of loyalty to a Party brand guide the majority of voters, both Republican and Democrat, the likelihood that things will actually improve in our lifetimes becomes more remote with each successive voting cycle. The corporatists, Dems and Repubs, have infiltrated both “viable” parties and are gradually gaining more control and that will not lead to anything good for a majority of humanity.
We’ve come to a point where congressional Democrats are totally useless and the congressional Republicans have gone completely insane, so there is your “choice – useless versus insane. There is nothing “logical” about continuing to support that scenario with votes unless you agree with what they are doing.
@ Jan
If reality, Frank, is enthusiastic approval for a leader who demanded and got the right to kill anyone he suspects of being disloyal without legal right to appeal and with no pressure by the opposing Republicans, then, Frank I can only make a reasonable guess as to where you keep your head.
Still trying not to be gratuitously insulting, Jan?
My head is on top of my shoulders. I can disagree with someone without the insults.
If reality, Frank, is enthusiastic approval for a leader who demanded and got the right to kill anyone he suspects of being disloyal without legal right to appeal and with no pressure by the opposing Republicans, then, Frank I can only make a reasonable guess as to where you keep your head.
Still trying not to be gratuitously insulting, Jan?
My head is on top of my shoulders. I can disagree with someone without the insults.
Frank, according to you:
Logic – stating a particular candidate is not the answer to problems and then saying he must be re-elected
Logic – insisting that playing by rules that are stacked against you is reasonable
Logic – self-delusional thinking that a choice of rhetoric, rather than action, is a meaningful choice on major issues; in other words, a non-choice is actually a choice
The bottom line at this point is that you and those like you are lulled into the delusion that these so-called “viable candidates” – according to the rules that are set by those who undermine your (and everyone else’s) best interests – actually act differently on major issues.
The sad truth for all of us is that until things get worse they will not get better and since fear and a false sense of loyalty to a Party brand guide the majority of voters, both Republican and Democrat, the likelihood that things will actually improve in our lifetimes becomes more remote with each successive voting cycle. The corporatists, Dems and Repubs, have infiltrated both “viable” parties and are gradually gaining more control and that will not lead to anything good for a majority of humanity.
We’ve come to a point where congressional Democrats are totally useless and the congressional Republicans have gone completely insane, so there is your “choice – useless versus insane. There is nothing “logical” about continuing to support that scenario with votes unless you agree with what they are doing.
If you want to think that there will be no difference if the Republicans gain control of the government as opposed to the Democrats...do so. You are dead wrong, in my opinion...and I will continue to act upon what I see as the reality.
Voting for the Greens is essentially a vote for Romney and the conservative dominated Republican Party. No way I will do that.
To their credit, the conservatives have started an all-out campaign to get the Libertarian candidate out of the race...or to tell conservatives that a vote for the Libertarian candidate essentially is a vote for Obama. The liberals still haven't figured out that a vote for the Greens is a vote for Romney.
I think Romney will win this thing...and people like the ones here will have helped get him into office. I will be interested to see how you people react when the reality of what you have helped to happen hits home.
Logic – stating a particular candidate is not the answer to problems and then saying he must be re-elected
Logic – insisting that playing by rules that are stacked against you is reasonable
Logic – self-delusional thinking that a choice of rhetoric, rather than action, is a meaningful choice on major issues; in other words, a non-choice is actually a choice
The bottom line at this point is that you and those like you are lulled into the delusion that these so-called “viable candidates” – according to the rules that are set by those who undermine your (and everyone else’s) best interests – actually act differently on major issues.
The sad truth for all of us is that until things get worse they will not get better and since fear and a false sense of loyalty to a Party brand guide the majority of voters, both Republican and Democrat, the likelihood that things will actually improve in our lifetimes becomes more remote with each successive voting cycle. The corporatists, Dems and Repubs, have infiltrated both “viable” parties and are gradually gaining more control and that will not lead to anything good for a majority of humanity.
We’ve come to a point where congressional Democrats are totally useless and the congressional Republicans have gone completely insane, so there is your “choice – useless versus insane. There is nothing “logical” about continuing to support that scenario with votes unless you agree with what they are doing.
If you want to think that there will be no difference if the Republicans gain control of the government as opposed to the Democrats...do so. You are dead wrong, in my opinion...and I will continue to act upon what I see as the reality.
Voting for the Greens is essentially a vote for Romney and the conservative dominated Republican Party. No way I will do that.
To their credit, the conservatives have started an all-out campaign to get the Libertarian candidate out of the race...or to tell conservatives that a vote for the Libertarian candidate essentially is a vote for Obama. The liberals still haven't figured out that a vote for the Greens is a vote for Romney.
I think Romney will win this thing...and people like the ones here will have helped get him into office. I will be interested to see how you people react when the reality of what you have helped to happen hits home.
"I am always astonished that your side has such difficulty saying “I disagree with you” without showing such lack of class. In any case, my head is not up my ass…nor is it in the sand. I am dealing with reality. There is a lot to be said for doing that, TL."
HAHAHAHA. Frank, you most certainly value style over substance. Which clearly shows why you rationalize your behavior. People like you need to be awoken from their trance. Unfortunately, if won't be me that does so. It will be the crisis created by your own doing. Your crisis.
So, you want me to provide you the decorum you believe is appropriate? Is that the same decorum you grant others by voting for a candidate that endorses mass murders without due process or constitutional declaration of war? Or the same decorum you grant others by voting for a candidate that tramples on its citizens constitutional rights. Or the same decorum you grant others by voting for a candidate that plays golf and basketball and talks of his own self-importance in the changes he has supposedly made while 45 million people are on food stamps and 150 million people have little more than this week's paycheck.... while corporations under his watch pay no taxes, loot our treasury, rob our society, destroy our social safety nets and send our jobs to slave labor camps as reward by that same candidate? Or maybe it's the decorum you grant others by voting for a candidate that supports rendition and torture, clear violations of the Geneva Convention.
Or is it some other decorum you respectfully show others by voting to take away their determinism and their rights?
I find no one more ego-motivated than the ideological dummies on the left who outsource their thinking and abandon themselves emotionally by voting for someone they have elevated to a level of savior. You do know why people do this? Because their inner child is looking to relive their childhood. And by adopting a savior, they are identifying the mommy they wish they had rather than taking responsibility for themselves as sentient, worthy adults.
In simple terms, you need to grow up and take responsibility for your actions. You are causing and perpetuating your own drama by not doing so. That's okay. But, when a lot of people do it, it harms the rest of us who don't use dissonance and rationalizations but, instead see the world as it is. A corrupt, anti-democratic, warring corporate slave camp in need of a restoration of democracy. And, all it would take is for you and a few others to actually wake up and grow up.
HAHAHAHA. Frank, you most certainly value style over substance. Which clearly shows why you rationalize your behavior. People like you need to be awoken from their trance. Unfortunately, if won't be me that does so. It will be the crisis created by your own doing. Your crisis.
So, you want me to provide you the decorum you believe is appropriate? Is that the same decorum you grant others by voting for a candidate that endorses mass murders without due process or constitutional declaration of war? Or the same decorum you grant others by voting for a candidate that tramples on its citizens constitutional rights. Or the same decorum you grant others by voting for a candidate that plays golf and basketball and talks of his own self-importance in the changes he has supposedly made while 45 million people are on food stamps and 150 million people have little more than this week's paycheck.... while corporations under his watch pay no taxes, loot our treasury, rob our society, destroy our social safety nets and send our jobs to slave labor camps as reward by that same candidate? Or maybe it's the decorum you grant others by voting for a candidate that supports rendition and torture, clear violations of the Geneva Convention.
Or is it some other decorum you respectfully show others by voting to take away their determinism and their rights?
I find no one more ego-motivated than the ideological dummies on the left who outsource their thinking and abandon themselves emotionally by voting for someone they have elevated to a level of savior. You do know why people do this? Because their inner child is looking to relive their childhood. And by adopting a savior, they are identifying the mommy they wish they had rather than taking responsibility for themselves as sentient, worthy adults.
In simple terms, you need to grow up and take responsibility for your actions. You are causing and perpetuating your own drama by not doing so. That's okay. But, when a lot of people do it, it harms the rest of us who don't use dissonance and rationalizations but, instead see the world as it is. A corrupt, anti-democratic, warring corporate slave camp in need of a restoration of democracy. And, all it would take is for you and a few others to actually wake up and grow up.
AP -- I am impressed CNN let Jill Stein have even less than four minutes. Maybe they know it is so late in the game and maybe they think they might grab back some of the truly totally pissed off liberals back to them as a demographic? Dream on. Remember when CNN had a reputation as an honest international messenger? Long ago and far away. Anderson C. stumbled onto a moment of truth and horror when Katrina happened to New Orleans but then what? Just one more mighty propaganda machine!
As for Obama this year, the big money banksters may very well be collectively stabbing Obama in the back and walking their money over to Romney, a newer and shinier puppet. Their addict hunger has escalated even more if possible and at least some of us, more, are on to Obama. And now that the overlords see just how incredibly passive and willing to live in the bell jar of denial, confusion or apathy so much of the citizenry is, why not go for the full out "proud to be fraudsters and war mongers" ones?
Obama has helped harden soft fascism. It took a Dem Trojan Horse like Obama and a hypocritical big money Dem party to do it!
Either corporate party is a vote for corporate-capture of America. Voting for the War Criminal or the War Criminal Wannabe? Some choice, America!
Contractors and corporations will get richer by maiming and killing innocent foreign children and their families. Profits uber alles. All's right with the free marketers and the executive bonus babies and for the rest of us? Nada. Not even cake.
best, libby
As for Obama this year, the big money banksters may very well be collectively stabbing Obama in the back and walking their money over to Romney, a newer and shinier puppet. Their addict hunger has escalated even more if possible and at least some of us, more, are on to Obama. And now that the overlords see just how incredibly passive and willing to live in the bell jar of denial, confusion or apathy so much of the citizenry is, why not go for the full out "proud to be fraudsters and war mongers" ones?
Obama has helped harden soft fascism. It took a Dem Trojan Horse like Obama and a hypocritical big money Dem party to do it!
Either corporate party is a vote for corporate-capture of America. Voting for the War Criminal or the War Criminal Wannabe? Some choice, America!
Contractors and corporations will get richer by maiming and killing innocent foreign children and their families. Profits uber alles. All's right with the free marketers and the executive bonus babies and for the rest of us? Nada. Not even cake.
best, libby
TL -- thanks for stopping by! So much well-expressed wisdom on our sad American reality. You write:
"America is the beacon high on a hill. It's just that the crooks in politics and in the corner offices of multinational corporations and banks don't share the values of a free and democratic society."
This quote you cite gave me chills it is so true now!
"In dictatorships you need courage to fight evil; in the free world you need courage to see evil." --Natan Sharansky, Soviet dissident, Gulag survivor, author of Fear No Evil
I remember my friend Bleue insisting on this truth you also echo:
"It takes personal crisis to affect social change on a massive scale. More and more are experiencing their own personal crisis or crisis of a friend or family member associated with political corruption, lack of economic opportunity, etc. Once those belief systems are truly shattered, the new Age of Enlightenment will gain mainstream force of change."
end of quote
Too bad, TL, Americans need to hit such a low bottom and the fact that so many of us are actually starting or not even starting to seriously suffer doesn't inspire mass pro-action. We are still not there yet, tragically, at the proverbial bottom. Another election time with no rallied will of the American people so more profound flagrant white collar and military criminality. Criminality on steroids. The rat bastards and rabid rat bastards are still at the reins.
And then there are those arguing on behalf of the mere rat bastards. Excuse me, but we all deserve and desperately need better governance than what comes from either the rbs or the rrbs.
best, libby
"America is the beacon high on a hill. It's just that the crooks in politics and in the corner offices of multinational corporations and banks don't share the values of a free and democratic society."
This quote you cite gave me chills it is so true now!
"In dictatorships you need courage to fight evil; in the free world you need courage to see evil." --Natan Sharansky, Soviet dissident, Gulag survivor, author of Fear No Evil
I remember my friend Bleue insisting on this truth you also echo:
"It takes personal crisis to affect social change on a massive scale. More and more are experiencing their own personal crisis or crisis of a friend or family member associated with political corruption, lack of economic opportunity, etc. Once those belief systems are truly shattered, the new Age of Enlightenment will gain mainstream force of change."
end of quote
Too bad, TL, Americans need to hit such a low bottom and the fact that so many of us are actually starting or not even starting to seriously suffer doesn't inspire mass pro-action. We are still not there yet, tragically, at the proverbial bottom. Another election time with no rallied will of the American people so more profound flagrant white collar and military criminality. Criminality on steroids. The rat bastards and rabid rat bastards are still at the reins.
And then there are those arguing on behalf of the mere rat bastards. Excuse me, but we all deserve and desperately need better governance than what comes from either the rbs or the rrbs.
best, libby
Frank, I would be insulting you if there were any doubts that the totally broken political system in the USA had the faintest chance of presenting the possibility of decency and good sense instead of rampaging throughout the world stealing the money needed for education, health, basic infrastructure maintenance and seeing to it that the old, the sick, the desperate people needing help and buying with it inept military horrors and totally corrupt thug driven governments to attempt to steal natural resources. It is not an insult to point out that someone who is addicted to doing foolish things is a fool, it is merely identifying openly what is obvious. I do not expect someone so pointed out to be happy about it and all I can do is extend my sympathies and hope that that type of delusion is fragile enough to inspire some understanding to reconsider and recalculate.
Darn. I have to go to another intensive work shift but will be back much later. I appreciate the discussion here and wish I had time at the moment to address the rest of these valuable comments.
We need to be having this discussion as a small citizen community, cyber, of America!
Thanks for reading and sharing and caring. We live in such dark times and we need to wake up our hearts and our consciences to save ourselves and others.
Louise Hay says, "The point of power is always in the present moment."
12 steps say you have to start with the first step, admitting how unmanageable it all is. Second step is trusting that a Higher Power will return us to sanity. SANITY!!!!!! I take that to mean not formal religious rituals but opening our hearts to true spirituality and humanitarianism and trusting that that a paradigm shift to those values will take us to recovery -- partnership and cooperation and empathy and DIPLOMACY. Not the sociopathic gamesmanship -- the patriarchal power and control and greed addiction based on amoral degrees of competition and pathological avarice -- that passes for leadership in this world and especially this country. Not might makes right. Not "ends justifies the means" for the heart of darkness Darwinian "winners" with the ill-gotten money and the ill-gotten power leverage.
Bishop Fulton Sheen said, "It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness."
And in the 60s we talked about the blunt choice: "If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem!" I used to have that poster on my wall at college. I was one of the many citizens who dropped the ball on protecting our democracy over these decades. Over-trusted and denied and ignored what my government was doing led by either corporate party. As Jefferson said, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." We gotta make up for a lot of lost non-vigilant and democracy-eroding time!
Take care! Will be back later. :-)
best, libby
We need to be having this discussion as a small citizen community, cyber, of America!
Thanks for reading and sharing and caring. We live in such dark times and we need to wake up our hearts and our consciences to save ourselves and others.
Louise Hay says, "The point of power is always in the present moment."
12 steps say you have to start with the first step, admitting how unmanageable it all is. Second step is trusting that a Higher Power will return us to sanity. SANITY!!!!!! I take that to mean not formal religious rituals but opening our hearts to true spirituality and humanitarianism and trusting that that a paradigm shift to those values will take us to recovery -- partnership and cooperation and empathy and DIPLOMACY. Not the sociopathic gamesmanship -- the patriarchal power and control and greed addiction based on amoral degrees of competition and pathological avarice -- that passes for leadership in this world and especially this country. Not might makes right. Not "ends justifies the means" for the heart of darkness Darwinian "winners" with the ill-gotten money and the ill-gotten power leverage.
Bishop Fulton Sheen said, "It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness."
And in the 60s we talked about the blunt choice: "If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem!" I used to have that poster on my wall at college. I was one of the many citizens who dropped the ball on protecting our democracy over these decades. Over-trusted and denied and ignored what my government was doing led by either corporate party. As Jefferson said, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." We gotta make up for a lot of lost non-vigilant and democracy-eroding time!
Take care! Will be back later. :-)
best, libby
Fulton Sheen might have said it but the consensus is that it's an old Chinese proverb. I am not fond of Sheen and am willing even to import proverbs from the Chinese along with all the other products.
Timing Logic...thank you for your continued lack of class.
I am not a liberal...I am not of the left...I am not a Democrat.
None of that crap applies to me.
I see Barack Obama as the better choice of the two choices that are available. Either the Democrat or the Republican will win...Jill Stein will be a footnote to the race--and not an especially important one.
If anyone is being bamboozled, it would be the people who think someone like Jill Stein would make a difference.
There are some egos that need control...mine is not one of them. There is some waking up and growing up to be done...but not by me.
I am not a liberal...I am not of the left...I am not a Democrat.
None of that crap applies to me.
I see Barack Obama as the better choice of the two choices that are available. Either the Democrat or the Republican will win...Jill Stein will be a footnote to the race--and not an especially important one.
If anyone is being bamboozled, it would be the people who think someone like Jill Stein would make a difference.
There are some egos that need control...mine is not one of them. There is some waking up and growing up to be done...but not by me.
Frank, I would be insulting you if...
Jan, I suspect you would be insulting no matter what. I think it is a part of you for some reason. I wish it weren't...if you could be rid of that dark passenger you might be an interesting person with whom to have a discussion.
Jan, I suspect you would be insulting no matter what. I think it is a part of you for some reason. I wish it weren't...if you could be rid of that dark passenger you might be an interesting person with whom to have a discussion.
Frank,
You are very resistant. Maybe something for you to explore about yourself.
I think what Libby, Jan, myself and a few others were attempting is an intervention. And, the only way one can effectively intervene is to reflect back upon you what we see. Because there is obviously a difference of perception of what others see in you and what you see in yourself. Others see rationalizations and delusions. You see something different. Somehow that perception difference will resolve itself in your mind when your rationalizations are eventually exposed to you in a time of crisis. A crisis this disconnect will most certainly create at some point.
Let me apply some reason to your rationalizations. Don't look at this as religious. You don't have to believe in God or hell or anything else. It's just an example that is easily reflected back on your rationalizations. Pretend you are in hell and you had three choices to vote for who was going to be your leader in hell. They were Satan, a lieutenant of Satan and God. Who would you vote for? And, let's say as a baseline, you are presented with the dilemma that no one in hell is going to vote for God, or virtue. Because no one in hell is of virtue. So, he has no chance of winning. So, who are you going to vote for? Someone with a chance of winning or someone of virtue with no chance of winning?
And, what exactly does this accomplish if you vote for someone with a chance of winning? Are you not still in hell? Did your vote stand for any type of moral clarity? Did you actually affect any kind of change for your suffering and your condition? Even if your candidate of virtue was guaranteed to lose? Would you have wasted your vote if it was cast for God?
In order to achieve some modicum of dignity, virtue and humaneness in our society, you first have to find the dignity, virtue and humaneness inside of you. Voting for anyone other than God is the reason you are in hell in the first place. In other words, you haven't granted yourself the dignity, virtue and humaneness you deserve. What resides of you inside has lost its way of what is good and just and true. You create your own reality through dissonance and rationalizations.
To change the world, we first need to recognize that we must change ourselves. But, the inner journey of discovery is wildly scary. We might find something frightening inside that we have to take responsibility for. It's so much easier to outsource our responsibility to a parental figure. Hence, why the Obama savior dynamic still exists for so many in our nation. It's easier to outsource that responsibility to someone else. Even if that someone else doesn't reflect the kindness, compassion and worthiness we deserve.
Wake up. Grow up. Get up. And, vote for justice, moral clarity, kindness, connectedness and community. I don't care who that is as long as that is truly what the candidate stands for. Grant yourself the worthiness you deserve. No one else will ever grant it to you.
You are very resistant. Maybe something for you to explore about yourself.
I think what Libby, Jan, myself and a few others were attempting is an intervention. And, the only way one can effectively intervene is to reflect back upon you what we see. Because there is obviously a difference of perception of what others see in you and what you see in yourself. Others see rationalizations and delusions. You see something different. Somehow that perception difference will resolve itself in your mind when your rationalizations are eventually exposed to you in a time of crisis. A crisis this disconnect will most certainly create at some point.
Let me apply some reason to your rationalizations. Don't look at this as religious. You don't have to believe in God or hell or anything else. It's just an example that is easily reflected back on your rationalizations. Pretend you are in hell and you had three choices to vote for who was going to be your leader in hell. They were Satan, a lieutenant of Satan and God. Who would you vote for? And, let's say as a baseline, you are presented with the dilemma that no one in hell is going to vote for God, or virtue. Because no one in hell is of virtue. So, he has no chance of winning. So, who are you going to vote for? Someone with a chance of winning or someone of virtue with no chance of winning?
And, what exactly does this accomplish if you vote for someone with a chance of winning? Are you not still in hell? Did your vote stand for any type of moral clarity? Did you actually affect any kind of change for your suffering and your condition? Even if your candidate of virtue was guaranteed to lose? Would you have wasted your vote if it was cast for God?
In order to achieve some modicum of dignity, virtue and humaneness in our society, you first have to find the dignity, virtue and humaneness inside of you. Voting for anyone other than God is the reason you are in hell in the first place. In other words, you haven't granted yourself the dignity, virtue and humaneness you deserve. What resides of you inside has lost its way of what is good and just and true. You create your own reality through dissonance and rationalizations.
To change the world, we first need to recognize that we must change ourselves. But, the inner journey of discovery is wildly scary. We might find something frightening inside that we have to take responsibility for. It's so much easier to outsource our responsibility to a parental figure. Hence, why the Obama savior dynamic still exists for so many in our nation. It's easier to outsource that responsibility to someone else. Even if that someone else doesn't reflect the kindness, compassion and worthiness we deserve.
Wake up. Grow up. Get up. And, vote for justice, moral clarity, kindness, connectedness and community. I don't care who that is as long as that is truly what the candidate stands for. Grant yourself the worthiness you deserve. No one else will ever grant it to you.
Libby - your college poster needs to be updated: "If You're Not Part Of The Solution, You're Probably Too Busy Blogging". Back then (50 years to the day, to be precise), in the thick of the Cuban missile crisis, it seemed the choices were much the same. Remember "Better red than dead"?
Frank,
You insist that the "conventional wisdom", as it is often called, is the only wisdom. You think doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is demonstrative of wisdom. The "Change we can believe in" and the "Hope" meme of Obama's first time around was as big a scam as anything we've seen in American politics in a long time. Nothing changed after he was elected. Nothing changed after the Democrats gained control of Congress in 2006. Obama and the Dems had control for 4 years and did nothing progressively beneficial and instead capitulated to the Repubs over and over, even refusing to uphold the laws of our own nation, which they were sworn to uphold. Our nation and both major parties now represent a mere facade with the financial and military power to ram that facade down the throats of not only citizens of other nations, but also our own citizens. And that is what they are doing now. Obama and Romney (Obamney) are not the real issue -- the uselessness of our congressional representatives is the issue. Obama has shown this to be true quite irrefutably.
You insist that the "conventional wisdom", as it is often called, is the only wisdom. You think doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is demonstrative of wisdom. The "Change we can believe in" and the "Hope" meme of Obama's first time around was as big a scam as anything we've seen in American politics in a long time. Nothing changed after he was elected. Nothing changed after the Democrats gained control of Congress in 2006. Obama and the Dems had control for 4 years and did nothing progressively beneficial and instead capitulated to the Repubs over and over, even refusing to uphold the laws of our own nation, which they were sworn to uphold. Our nation and both major parties now represent a mere facade with the financial and military power to ram that facade down the throats of not only citizens of other nations, but also our own citizens. And that is what they are doing now. Obama and Romney (Obamney) are not the real issue -- the uselessness of our congressional representatives is the issue. Obama has shown this to be true quite irrefutably.
Frank, I sense in you someone concerned with practical intent to make the best of two equally ineffective choices. You assume that Obama is preferable to Romney because he puts on the face of someone genuinely concerned for the welfare of the nation fighting intractable odds in the crazy house the Republicans have created in Congress. But the raw facts are (and these you stubbornly ignore) that every major action of Obama fits precisely into the patterns the Republicans and what the corporate-financial masters demand. You seem completely taken in by the totally false face Obama places before the public as someone trying hard to turn things around and failing utterly. But his actions clearly demonstrate he gives not a damn for the welfare of the country in general nor the constitutional framework to preserve a decent and workable society. You give him the benefit of the doubt when he has made totally obvious there is no doubt. He is Romney dusted with a bit of flim-flam sugar and you are gobbling him down. And that is dangerous not only for you but for me as well. You are trusting in a system that has been undermined and disintegrated by political thugs and the only choice is to destroy that scam with something outside the system. The political scene at this point demands to excise this cancer. There is no such thing as a better or worse cancer. It's all cancer and has to be removed by some form of surgery or we all die.
Your whole house is a flaming horror, Frank, and you have finally and firmly decided to piss in one corner to try to put it out. It is impossible for me to insult you in these circumstances. You are doing a fine job of that yourself.
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