RE-POST of 3/3/11 Correntewire:
Listening to morally myopic Obama tonight on the NewsHour giving the old "razzle dazzle," now talking about wanting to send a CLEAR message about the violence and potential further violence in Libya, I felt nauseous. Clear message? Maybe pseudo-clear message to America’s ostrich citizenry. Certainly not to the Arab world that has seen the craven and massive violence that US, Israel, and western power interference entails and has entailed. The cost of millions in death, maiming and/or displacement. Obama's concern about a “bloody” situation? Drone-happy Obama is concerned about blood being shed? Okay. Maybe he does care about the sight of blood, and that is why he prefers horrifying weapons of instant incineration? That is my bitter take.
The Obama administration, like the Bush administration, can not honor the needs and will of the citizenry of its own country. Why on earth would it heed the welfare of the courageous and endangered peoples in other countries? HYPOCRISY on steroids.
Why, destabilization, according to Rahm’s theory if you remember, is one further OPPORTUNITY for plunder. I think of Westmoreland’s justification in Viet Nam, “We had to bomb the village in order to save it.” Yeah, that is rich. “Collateral damage” to the amoral gamesmen and gameswomen lost to the war addiction and the greed addiction is a small price to pay for their imperialist agenda.
So re the Arab world, we -- the US and its friendly, fellow imperialist bullies -- had to and have to destroy massive numbers of a country’s citizenry and its country’s infrastructure in order to rape that country’s natural resources, especially oil, for the oligarchy, the same way the American political elite has raped its own middle, working and non-working class citizenry of their rights to health care, employment, security, etc., with more massive destruction to come. We are becoming fast one of the third world countries paralleling the countries the US has profoundly damaged through the decades. The gated community opportunism of the super rich uber alles.
I continue to get headaches watching American corporate news because I know I am being spun by an administration I lost trust in long ago that is shoveling out disinformation as fast as it can to justify its soon craven agenda.
So America’s amoral political gamesmen and gameswomen, pimped by corporatists, will “cherry pick” humanitarian justifications to insinuate ultimate avalanche-destructive leverage in yet more Arab countries. Countries where they have been propping up despots who have been torturing and starving their own citizens. The US didn’t care. US interests? America’s officialdom is sure as hell uninterested in human rights and human welfare.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The amoralists don’t really want different results. As for the American sheeple, they will play Lucy and the football forever with Obama and the media it would seem. They too will not take responsibility for the millions of lives of fellow human beings, whether the elderly, women and children, or young men who deserve to live out their lives in peace and not on military suicide missions, driven to fighting the weapons of massive over-kill by bullying super-powers subscribing to “might makes right” hegemony while razzle-dazzling with talk of concern about helping maintain "stability" and humanitarian conditions. Yeah, the mighty strings attached to that! As the US hastens to install the next despot puppet friendly to said "American interests."
I am no Middle Eastern scholar. But I know when the truth is being buried and has been. I am a harried American citizen who knows the reality of her craven, amoral and cowardly own administration, Congressional representatives on both sides of the aisle, and of the military industrial security complex killing machine.
You remember “Collateral Murder”, the video that was released allegedly by Bradley Manning to Wikileaks, maybe the first item, maybe not (the first I saw, anyway). It showed not only hopped up seemingly homicidal soldiers aiming at and killing obvious civilians (which has been contested by some), but then it revealed further an even more clear-cut example of homicides, clear-cut defiance of the Geneva Convention precepts, even more damning than the initial bloodshed by the Apache helicopter crew in Iraq. They were killing clearly unarmed Good Samaritan rescuers of the wounded from the first hail of bullets. There were children involved who were injured in the second stage. Again, CLEARLY an unarguable and illegal VIOLATION. And yet, there was no, no, NO, accountability for this. The obtusely clueless or craven call for Manning’s death for revealing the basement floor of immorality on the part of members of our army, of the US killing machine, that will recklessly and extrajudicially destroy human lives.
What does the majority of the citizenry do about the immorality allegedly Manning and Wikileaks revealed? Why, they ignore that the administration is torturing the messenger and let the corporate media comfort them that justice is being done when quite the opposite is happening. And now we are served up more plates of hypocrisy and mendacity. Heaping plates of it?
Here are some points of view that are worth heeding regarding the US “American interests” agendas involving Libya, etc. and then Pakistan, perspectives that won’t get much play in the corporate media for sure.
Seumas Milne in the Guardian.
The "responsibility to protect" invoked by those demanding intervention in Libya is applied so selectively that the word hypocrisy doesn't do it justice. And the idea that states which are themselves responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands in illegal wars, occupations and interventions in the last decade, along with mass imprisonment without trial, torture and kidnapping, should be authorised by international institutions to prevent killings in other countries is simply preposterous. The barefaced cheek of William Hague's insistence that there would be a "day of reckoning" for the Libyan regime if it committed crimes or atrocities took some beating.
The reality is that the western powers which have backed authoritarian kleptocrats across the Middle East for decades now face a loss of power in the most strategically sensitive region of the world as a result of the Arab uprisings and the prospect of representative governments. They are evidently determined to appropriate the revolutionary process wherever possible, limiting it to cosmetic change that allows continued control of the region.
In Libya, the disintegration of the regime offers a crucial opening. Even more important, unlike Tunisia and Egypt, it has the strategic prize of the largest oil reserves in Africa. Of course the Gaddafi regime has moved a long way from the days when it took over the country's oil, kicked out foreign bases and funded the African National Congress at a time when the US and Britain branded Nelson Mandela a terrorist.
Along with repression, corruption and a failure to deliver to ordinary Libyans, the regime has long since bent the knee to western power, as Tony Blair and his friends were so keen to celebrate, ditching old allies and nuclear ambitions while offering privatised pickings and contracts to western banks, arms and oil corporations such as BP.
[snip]
That is clear in reaction on the ground in Libya to the threat of outside intervention. As one of the rebel military leaders in Benghazi, General Ahmad Gatroni, said this week, the US should "take care of its own people, we can look after ourselves".
No-fly zones, backed by some other opposition figures, would involve a military attack on Libya's air defences and, judging from the Iraqi experience, be highly unlikely to halt regime helicopter or ground operations. They would risk expanding military conflict and strengthening Gaddafi's hand by allowing the regime to burnish its anti-imperialist credentials. Military intervention wouldn't just be a threat to Libya and its people, but to the ownership of what has been until now an entirely organic, homegrown democratic movement across the region.
The embattled US-backed Yemeni president Ali Abdallah Saleh claimed on Tuesday that the region-wide protest movement was "managed by Tel Aviv and under the supervision of Washington". That is easily dismissed as a hallucinogenic fantasy now. It would seem less so if the US and Britain were arming the Libyan opposition. The Arab revolution will be made by Arabs, or it won't be a revolution at all.
James Carroll in the "Boston Globe".
THE REVOLUTIONS in the Arab streets, whatever their individual outcomes, have already overturned the dominant assumption of global geopolitics — that hundreds of millions of impoverished people will uncomplainingly accept their assignment to the antechamber of hell. The United States, meanwhile, has been faced with the radical obsolescence of its Cold War-rooted preference of strong-man “stability’’ over basic principles of justice. In 1979, with Iran’s popular overthrow of the shah, America was given a chance to re-examine its regional assumptions, but the Carter Doctrine militarized them by threatening war for the sake of oil. In 1989, when people power dismantled the Soviet empire, Washington declared its own empire, and replaced the Communist devil with an Islamic one. But what if the devil has a point
The Obama administration’s initial ambivalence toward the popular Arab uprisings resulted less from uncertain political instincts than from the iron grip of a half-century old paradigm, the core principle of which, in the Mideast, is that oil matters more than human life. That paradigm is broken now, and Washington is chastened by the clear manifestation that its policies have been self-serving, callous, and even immoral. It is impossible to behold such developments without asking: What next? And to ask that question is to follow an automatic shift of the gaze toward Pakistan.
The United States has been preoccupied, as ever, more with the power elite of Pakistan than with the plight of its people, which makes it as wrong in its strategy toward that pivotal nation as toward the others. For the usual reasons of realpolitik, Washington has cozied up to one Pakistani dictator after another; ignored their corruptions; downplayed their mortal complicity in the most dangerous nuclear proliferation on the planet; turned a half-blind eye to the Pakistani military’s double game in Afghanistan. All the while, the same pressures that have blown the tops off half a dozen Arab states have been building there, too.
Pakistan is a country of 170 million people, 60 percent of whom live on less than $2 a day. Nearly that many are illiterate. In the last three years, unemployment has almost tripled to 14 percent, with the same increases in the cost of basic necessities that sparked unrest elsewhere. But Pakistan has also been staggered by last summer’s floods, which directly affected more than 20 million, and so devastated the nation’s agricultural infrastructure that by autumn the World Food Program was warning that 70 percent of the population lacked adequate access to nutrition. As if these “normal’’ pressures of natural disaster and economic inequity are not destabilizing enough, a massive Islamist insurgency, building on the primacy of tribal loyalties, increasingly threatens the Islamabad government. Early this month, as protests mounted to his west, the Pakistani prime minister made the by-then mandatory show of reform by dissolving his cabinet.
[snip]
And speaking of last week, what were those frenzied crowds in Pakistani streets calling for if not the lynching of Raymond Davis, the CIA operative who faces a murder trial in Lahore for his January killing of two Pakistanis? That Davis is tied to havoc-wreaking CIA drone strikes is enough to enrage a population, shackling his nation, once again, to the wrong side of history.
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Brilliant post, Libby. You are clearly switched on today. Sadly I think Obama know exactly what they're doing in Libya, Syria, Pakistan and Iran. The mayhem and mass murder is deliberate. This is what empire looks like. I think democracy ended in the US when they passed the Patriot Act.
Democracy exists today in the US as it always has; as a concept never achieved, not wanted by those who control puppet-government strings, and not likely to ever emerge. It is just a hot-button word trigger used by politrickians and those for whom it means only that they have a right to gobble up everything.
There cannot exist democracy wherever a society is operated primarily for the benefit of "a few" instead of for all.
-This holds true in both capitalist and socialist economies.
-This holds true wherever wealth becomes more important than people.
-This holds true wherever the structure of a society is of pyramidal shape, for that shape demands that there be an elite in the topmost peak that is supported by all others. Who sits in that elite position is irrelevant; it is the existence of such a position that causes the harm.
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There cannot exist democracy wherever a society is operated primarily for the benefit of "a few" instead of for all.
-This holds true in both capitalist and socialist economies.
-This holds true wherever wealth becomes more important than people.
-This holds true wherever the structure of a society is of pyramidal shape, for that shape demands that there be an elite in the topmost peak that is supported by all others. Who sits in that elite position is irrelevant; it is the existence of such a position that causes the harm.
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"Those who sit in positions of power will ALWAYS use their positions to benefit themselves at the expense of others."
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Thanks, Stuart. I wrote this a year ago, but refreshed the title. It does sum it all up, the coopting of the genuine and courageous global rebelliousness by the avaricious western powers. Even Russia is on their greedy and bloody clipboard! The clearer it gets the more horrifying it gets. libby
toritto, appreciate your gallows humor, but admit it makes me gulp! but I want to be on the right side of history even though my Prez, congresspeople, fellow citizens, most, and country are not. libby
sky, a lot of wisdom there. you know, the only organization that had a brilliant blue print of organization imho if it is followed and honored is the 12 step organization by Bill Wilson. it has gone international and has an awesome success rate. Principle over personality, leaders are trusted servants who rotate. Mentoring encouraged. Detachment not cronyism and enabling encouraged when fellow humans are acting out. Rigorous honesty. Serenity and harmony and a fellowship of equals. You leave your status at the door.
The Green Party principles remind me of the 12 steps and that is why it attracts me and it is also international. But it is not perfect, either. I am praying OWS movement and Greens can learn and grow from each other. I hear what you are saying about power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
You know Madison Avenue and Wall Street and K Street all working together. Madison Avenue turned us into a consumer culture whereby lying became normalized. Propaganda was spun to be public relations and winner take all and buyer beware became the modus operandi. And it kept getting more and more extreme. And this is what we are left with. this anti-empathy, anti-judicial, anti-constitutional bullshit moral vacuum with Obama the American Judas at the helm and most of the country still stuck in denial and American style narcissism. One of the reasons I resent Oprah and especially Axelrod so much for playing us via the big media and giving us Obama as their hologram who can't begin to be a statesperson! I don't know if he is a follower wimp a/k/a authoritarian follower, or an egomaniac a/k/a authoritarian. Either way he is dangerous and the results are the same.
The humanitarian bullshit for regime change and the bullies cabal always speaking as the "international community" shows the heart of darkness of both legacy parties.
I carry my vomit bucket around most of the time now.
Thanks for your comment! best, libby :)
toritto, appreciate your gallows humor, but admit it makes me gulp! but I want to be on the right side of history even though my Prez, congresspeople, fellow citizens, most, and country are not. libby
sky, a lot of wisdom there. you know, the only organization that had a brilliant blue print of organization imho if it is followed and honored is the 12 step organization by Bill Wilson. it has gone international and has an awesome success rate. Principle over personality, leaders are trusted servants who rotate. Mentoring encouraged. Detachment not cronyism and enabling encouraged when fellow humans are acting out. Rigorous honesty. Serenity and harmony and a fellowship of equals. You leave your status at the door.
The Green Party principles remind me of the 12 steps and that is why it attracts me and it is also international. But it is not perfect, either. I am praying OWS movement and Greens can learn and grow from each other. I hear what you are saying about power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
You know Madison Avenue and Wall Street and K Street all working together. Madison Avenue turned us into a consumer culture whereby lying became normalized. Propaganda was spun to be public relations and winner take all and buyer beware became the modus operandi. And it kept getting more and more extreme. And this is what we are left with. this anti-empathy, anti-judicial, anti-constitutional bullshit moral vacuum with Obama the American Judas at the helm and most of the country still stuck in denial and American style narcissism. One of the reasons I resent Oprah and especially Axelrod so much for playing us via the big media and giving us Obama as their hologram who can't begin to be a statesperson! I don't know if he is a follower wimp a/k/a authoritarian follower, or an egomaniac a/k/a authoritarian. Either way he is dangerous and the results are the same.
The humanitarian bullshit for regime change and the bullies cabal always speaking as the "international community" shows the heart of darkness of both legacy parties.
I carry my vomit bucket around most of the time now.
Thanks for your comment! best, libby :)
Rated for consistent reliance on FACTS, courageousness, and tenacity.
After fRANK finishes a round of golf or a letter to the newspaper concerning leashing cats, he'll be by to accuse You (and Your commenters) of being "professional liberals."
-R-
After fRANK finishes a round of golf or a letter to the newspaper concerning leashing cats, he'll be by to accuse You (and Your commenters) of being "professional liberals."
-R-
Libbly,
At the time that Obama had been elected but had not yet taken office, I made certain predictions. I'll re-post them as November gets near.
But I'll give you a hint: Obama has done just what any Democrat in the White House would have done. The left in the US was never promised he'd do anything more or less than that. you all formed your own dreams of what he'd do and are now disappointed that Obama has not done things the way you wanted him to do them.
Don't blame Obama for this. The fault lies in the totally unrealistic dreams of the left. The Dems have NEVER been a party of the left or of socialist philosophy. I've no idea why y'all thought they would be under Obama.
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At the time that Obama had been elected but had not yet taken office, I made certain predictions. I'll re-post them as November gets near.
But I'll give you a hint: Obama has done just what any Democrat in the White House would have done. The left in the US was never promised he'd do anything more or less than that. you all formed your own dreams of what he'd do and are now disappointed that Obama has not done things the way you wanted him to do them.
Don't blame Obama for this. The fault lies in the totally unrealistic dreams of the left. The Dems have NEVER been a party of the left or of socialist philosophy. I've no idea why y'all thought they would be under Obama.
.
Thanks, Mark. Always appreciate your validation! :)
Sky, my feelings are what they are. I don't think you can begin to argue me out of them especially about the -- as I see it deserving --Obama and I am sorry if they jar you but I got em and I stand by 'em the same as you stand by yours. So be it, my friend.
Why is my anger at him a big issue for you? He is a war criminal and a sell out of domestic welfare. I may ask why don't you have anger at him as an agent of these things? Why is my being angry with him any skin off your nose? I am also angry at Congress, the media and most of my fellow citizens, also.
Obama is an enabler in chief for the evil that is happening, and yes I do believe a person of character can step up and make a difference, though look at how they piled on Nader and wouldn't let him clean up Dodge DC and I believe he could have.
Remember when the Surgeon General Koop shocked those who assumed he would behave one way and he came out for sex education and reality-based communication. That was so refreshing and that was a mensch that the rat bastards had underestimated!
Anyway, Obama is a front man and a liar and an opportunistic schmoozer and that pisses me off. I also dislike intensely David Axelrod as his Rasputin as one blogger once wrote.
Yes, the oligarchs dug in their claws after 1980 and both parties sold out steadily since then. i agree. The Dem party used to have liberal ideals, the period before that I believe. No, not perfect, with corruption but nothing like NOW!!!!
I believe in the theory of the 100 monkeys. When the 100 metaphorical monkeys GET REALITY finally word spreads though the whole monkey nation and change can happen. It may not stay changed since vigilance is required, eternal vigilance as Jefferson proclaimed, but change happens. That is what happened re the Vietnam War and it took a tragically long time for the 100 monkeys to get it.
I am counting on 100 citizen monkeys to see through the ferocious corruption of the political system and the media! Maybe we can get someone of character rather than bullshit pr personality uber alles. as for lesser evilism ... bleecccccchhhhhhhh. Note to MSNBC, you guys are shallow hawkers for lesser evilism!!!!
my 2-1/2 cents! best, libby
Sky, my feelings are what they are. I don't think you can begin to argue me out of them especially about the -- as I see it deserving --Obama and I am sorry if they jar you but I got em and I stand by 'em the same as you stand by yours. So be it, my friend.
Why is my anger at him a big issue for you? He is a war criminal and a sell out of domestic welfare. I may ask why don't you have anger at him as an agent of these things? Why is my being angry with him any skin off your nose? I am also angry at Congress, the media and most of my fellow citizens, also.
Obama is an enabler in chief for the evil that is happening, and yes I do believe a person of character can step up and make a difference, though look at how they piled on Nader and wouldn't let him clean up Dodge DC and I believe he could have.
Remember when the Surgeon General Koop shocked those who assumed he would behave one way and he came out for sex education and reality-based communication. That was so refreshing and that was a mensch that the rat bastards had underestimated!
Anyway, Obama is a front man and a liar and an opportunistic schmoozer and that pisses me off. I also dislike intensely David Axelrod as his Rasputin as one blogger once wrote.
Yes, the oligarchs dug in their claws after 1980 and both parties sold out steadily since then. i agree. The Dem party used to have liberal ideals, the period before that I believe. No, not perfect, with corruption but nothing like NOW!!!!
I believe in the theory of the 100 monkeys. When the 100 metaphorical monkeys GET REALITY finally word spreads though the whole monkey nation and change can happen. It may not stay changed since vigilance is required, eternal vigilance as Jefferson proclaimed, but change happens. That is what happened re the Vietnam War and it took a tragically long time for the 100 monkeys to get it.
I am counting on 100 citizen monkeys to see through the ferocious corruption of the political system and the media! Maybe we can get someone of character rather than bullshit pr personality uber alles. as for lesser evilism ... bleecccccchhhhhhhh. Note to MSNBC, you guys are shallow hawkers for lesser evilism!!!!
my 2-1/2 cents! best, libby
Yes, we are fast becoming another third world nation, way down on the western industrialized nation totem pole in education - what a travesty - and over 600,000 homeless on any given night, including children. It's time to help our own citizens and stop meddling in the affairs of others. Great post, Libby.
Libby,
Oh gosh! You've made the classic error that Americans always seem to make. I suppose it comes from your country only having two major political parties. You've assumed that because I have little use for socialism that I must therefor support the other party (the Republicrats). Not so, I'm afraid.
I have read nothing of their behaviour, no matter which face they're wearing, that you have written that is not true. I applaud you for bringing all this to the attention of the public in all the ways that you do.
However, you and other socialists here on OS, have also written as though you genuinely expected Obama to lean more toward your position than he has ever indicated that he is interested in doing. That I call you on your unrealistic expectations does NOT mean that it wouldn't be great if he did lean that way or if he repudiated his lack of respect for the population that elected him and got his butt out of the pockets of the elite that he serves.
It also doesn't mean that I lack respect for you and those like you who genuinely feel that socialism is a desirable system. I am quite aware of your concern for your fellow citizens - in fact for all the peoples of the world. I also applaud you loudly for being so caring. I just think that the system you propose is as flawed as our present one is; and in exactly the same way!
Y'see Libby, I have lived in two of our Canadian provinces when socialist parties formed the provincial governments. I now spend most of my time in B.C. which has had a socialist government for many years and has, at this time a Liberal government. I won't go into it just now but when I say I have no love for socialism, I have very good reason for saying so - I've lived under them!
Sooooooo........ I don't like the conservatives, I don't like the liberals, and I don't like the socialists. I don't think any of them are totally wrong or very much right either. But they all seek the same thing - power over people. When they get it they use it as people with power have ALWAYS used it - to serve the interests of themselves and their friends. ALL of them do this. This happens everywhere in the whole world under every type of system that puts some 'above' others.
The fault does not lie in "who" sits in the seats of power; it lies in having "seats of power" in the first place.
Having said all that, I will still stand beside you and your socialist friends long before I'll stand beside greed capitalists who are doing their best to establish a fascist/religionist/oligarchy. I'll never see things your way as to the system you chose to espouse but I'll be happy to help you take out the garbage if you get into the house of power.
;-)
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Oh gosh! You've made the classic error that Americans always seem to make. I suppose it comes from your country only having two major political parties. You've assumed that because I have little use for socialism that I must therefor support the other party (the Republicrats). Not so, I'm afraid.
I have read nothing of their behaviour, no matter which face they're wearing, that you have written that is not true. I applaud you for bringing all this to the attention of the public in all the ways that you do.
However, you and other socialists here on OS, have also written as though you genuinely expected Obama to lean more toward your position than he has ever indicated that he is interested in doing. That I call you on your unrealistic expectations does NOT mean that it wouldn't be great if he did lean that way or if he repudiated his lack of respect for the population that elected him and got his butt out of the pockets of the elite that he serves.
It also doesn't mean that I lack respect for you and those like you who genuinely feel that socialism is a desirable system. I am quite aware of your concern for your fellow citizens - in fact for all the peoples of the world. I also applaud you loudly for being so caring. I just think that the system you propose is as flawed as our present one is; and in exactly the same way!
Y'see Libby, I have lived in two of our Canadian provinces when socialist parties formed the provincial governments. I now spend most of my time in B.C. which has had a socialist government for many years and has, at this time a Liberal government. I won't go into it just now but when I say I have no love for socialism, I have very good reason for saying so - I've lived under them!
Sooooooo........ I don't like the conservatives, I don't like the liberals, and I don't like the socialists. I don't think any of them are totally wrong or very much right either. But they all seek the same thing - power over people. When they get it they use it as people with power have ALWAYS used it - to serve the interests of themselves and their friends. ALL of them do this. This happens everywhere in the whole world under every type of system that puts some 'above' others.
The fault does not lie in "who" sits in the seats of power; it lies in having "seats of power" in the first place.
Having said all that, I will still stand beside you and your socialist friends long before I'll stand beside greed capitalists who are doing their best to establish a fascist/religionist/oligarchy. I'll never see things your way as to the system you chose to espouse but I'll be happy to help you take out the garbage if you get into the house of power.
;-)
.
Sky,
No, I didn't ever suspect you of being a Republicrat and I appreciate what you are saying about the slippery slope of power held by anyone to be abused and that abuse if not stopped will just continue to fester and corrupt a system. I thought of you often when I heard about the occupiers refusing to have leaders per se. They seemed to intuitively grasp your theory about power patriarchy.
I find the most informative articles on Obama's crap on wsws website. So I don't consider myself an out and out "socialist" but maybe I am since they seem to verify my stances on the corruption domestically and internationally with facts.
I was watching a pbs show on Marie Antoinette, and that family tried to escape their fate during the French Revolution and slip into Austria, but the carriage and baggage they tried to sneak away with gave them up when they were close to the border. They were so clueless to the poverty of the people and so utterly spoiled by their own fabulous ultra comfort needs they couldn't even camouflage themselves enuf to endure roughing it to save their heads. It reminds me of the one percenters who doom us to eating the proverbial cake.
I was more idealistic and naive when I was younger. I turned to media celebs to translate for me what was happening and to tell me reality and I see how childlike I was.
My background is growing up in a profoundly dysfunctional alcoholic family network. My welfare was tied up tragically with people not taking care of theirs let alone mine, and aside from the horror of the alcoholic's behavior and narcissism what was even more crazymaking and destructive and identity and esteem eroding was the outrageous and illogical enabling as well as stubborn denial of reality of those around me.
Finally coming out of the pain and fog of that situation with too many of my own profound and custom-built "issues" still tethered to me, I find my "nation" is so much like that painful family. With deranged people at the helm literally mass murdering and mass stealing from the citizens of our and other nations and our citizens, way too many, manipulated and clueless by media and by each other and by the extorters and murderers and their top string of enablers at the top. Citizens doing their crazymaking enabling and clinging to denial because these garbage-y and shameless pols are so obscenely treacherous ... even after these bloodbath wars and the pillaging of the treasury ... THEY ARE NOT DONE!
I watched Morning Joe people this morning soften us all up for a war with Iran and Syria one more time with guest Susan Rice. I turned it off it turned my stomach so. Manufacture of consent. Evidence of Iranian WMDs. BULLSHIT. 16 intelligence agencies say no hard evidence, but Morning Joe Scarboro does, so who does America get to hear? They made jokes that it should have been Iran not Iraq we bombed the sh*t out of originally, substituting the n for the q in the spelling. 80 million people's lives may soon be devastated and our own troops and even ours at risk from these fools with government celebs access playing video games with peoples and countries.
Joe S. also declaring he wants Jeb Bush to be a candidate and he will do all he can to make that happen and maybe a couple other fools from the Repub party like Paul Ryan. The colossal hubris of this guy but look at the national mic he has got when people like Jill Stein or Nader can't get arrested. (though in Obamaworld that will happen soon enough to people of conscience)
Sky, I see your point on the emotionalism stuff. I grew up feeling betrayed by some people who had a "disorder" they were struggling with and all that stress made them narcissistic as stress does to anyone because of its nature. It wasn't personal, it was tragic but they were struggling. Hard not to personalize it when you are up close and personal. I know I carry that ancient-frustration with me and it gets projected onto the present administration, as it did on the horror of the Bush administration. Having endured those two interminable terms and wanting more than lies and molecules of crumbs from Obama, who skates along on being the default "lesser evil" really burns me, but I guess I am dealing with the 5 stages of grief myself. (they say in 12 step programs if it is "hysterical" it must be "historical") Obama could not be the answer in a dual-corrupt system. You are right. We were, so many of us, naive. I also think Nader was right. Both parties jumped the shark long ago in terms of corruption. All the rage at him in 200o for not letting Al Gore have the throne (which I think is a crock, Al should have won easily even with the election fraud shenanigans of Rove and Jeb Bush in particular and Gore was a good legacy party boy who was answerable to the oligarchs himself, though the Dems successfully played "it's their fault especially since 1980). Would Al Gore have been the same stooge Obama is now? Assuredly Hillary would have been, as she is proving now. And Golden Bill Clinton who sold us out in terms of deregulation. I got rage at him, too. :) Enuf for everyone, including myself.
Alas, at my ripening age I still love mankind -- personkind --, I suppose, but "it's people I can't stand" as the adage goes. As I read what you were saying I thought of that scene in Camelot, when Arthur's Round Table (post its honeymoon) is literally broken and they all must begin again, with the horrifying maturity that partnership and cooperation is vulnerable to sociopathy and egos run amok.
Take care, my friend! To be continued, us dealing with that garbage!
I am so glad we are engaging again. I missed you. I am so lousy at conflict resolution and sometimes hair-trigger emotional and I am sorry and will try to do better with both.
You take care. best, libby xxx
No, I didn't ever suspect you of being a Republicrat and I appreciate what you are saying about the slippery slope of power held by anyone to be abused and that abuse if not stopped will just continue to fester and corrupt a system. I thought of you often when I heard about the occupiers refusing to have leaders per se. They seemed to intuitively grasp your theory about power patriarchy.
I find the most informative articles on Obama's crap on wsws website. So I don't consider myself an out and out "socialist" but maybe I am since they seem to verify my stances on the corruption domestically and internationally with facts.
I was watching a pbs show on Marie Antoinette, and that family tried to escape their fate during the French Revolution and slip into Austria, but the carriage and baggage they tried to sneak away with gave them up when they were close to the border. They were so clueless to the poverty of the people and so utterly spoiled by their own fabulous ultra comfort needs they couldn't even camouflage themselves enuf to endure roughing it to save their heads. It reminds me of the one percenters who doom us to eating the proverbial cake.
I was more idealistic and naive when I was younger. I turned to media celebs to translate for me what was happening and to tell me reality and I see how childlike I was.
My background is growing up in a profoundly dysfunctional alcoholic family network. My welfare was tied up tragically with people not taking care of theirs let alone mine, and aside from the horror of the alcoholic's behavior and narcissism what was even more crazymaking and destructive and identity and esteem eroding was the outrageous and illogical enabling as well as stubborn denial of reality of those around me.
Finally coming out of the pain and fog of that situation with too many of my own profound and custom-built "issues" still tethered to me, I find my "nation" is so much like that painful family. With deranged people at the helm literally mass murdering and mass stealing from the citizens of our and other nations and our citizens, way too many, manipulated and clueless by media and by each other and by the extorters and murderers and their top string of enablers at the top. Citizens doing their crazymaking enabling and clinging to denial because these garbage-y and shameless pols are so obscenely treacherous ... even after these bloodbath wars and the pillaging of the treasury ... THEY ARE NOT DONE!
I watched Morning Joe people this morning soften us all up for a war with Iran and Syria one more time with guest Susan Rice. I turned it off it turned my stomach so. Manufacture of consent. Evidence of Iranian WMDs. BULLSHIT. 16 intelligence agencies say no hard evidence, but Morning Joe Scarboro does, so who does America get to hear? They made jokes that it should have been Iran not Iraq we bombed the sh*t out of originally, substituting the n for the q in the spelling. 80 million people's lives may soon be devastated and our own troops and even ours at risk from these fools with government celebs access playing video games with peoples and countries.
Joe S. also declaring he wants Jeb Bush to be a candidate and he will do all he can to make that happen and maybe a couple other fools from the Repub party like Paul Ryan. The colossal hubris of this guy but look at the national mic he has got when people like Jill Stein or Nader can't get arrested. (though in Obamaworld that will happen soon enough to people of conscience)
Sky, I see your point on the emotionalism stuff. I grew up feeling betrayed by some people who had a "disorder" they were struggling with and all that stress made them narcissistic as stress does to anyone because of its nature. It wasn't personal, it was tragic but they were struggling. Hard not to personalize it when you are up close and personal. I know I carry that ancient-frustration with me and it gets projected onto the present administration, as it did on the horror of the Bush administration. Having endured those two interminable terms and wanting more than lies and molecules of crumbs from Obama, who skates along on being the default "lesser evil" really burns me, but I guess I am dealing with the 5 stages of grief myself. (they say in 12 step programs if it is "hysterical" it must be "historical") Obama could not be the answer in a dual-corrupt system. You are right. We were, so many of us, naive. I also think Nader was right. Both parties jumped the shark long ago in terms of corruption. All the rage at him in 200o for not letting Al Gore have the throne (which I think is a crock, Al should have won easily even with the election fraud shenanigans of Rove and Jeb Bush in particular and Gore was a good legacy party boy who was answerable to the oligarchs himself, though the Dems successfully played "it's their fault especially since 1980). Would Al Gore have been the same stooge Obama is now? Assuredly Hillary would have been, as she is proving now. And Golden Bill Clinton who sold us out in terms of deregulation. I got rage at him, too. :) Enuf for everyone, including myself.
Alas, at my ripening age I still love mankind -- personkind --, I suppose, but "it's people I can't stand" as the adage goes. As I read what you were saying I thought of that scene in Camelot, when Arthur's Round Table (post its honeymoon) is literally broken and they all must begin again, with the horrifying maturity that partnership and cooperation is vulnerable to sociopathy and egos run amok.
Take care, my friend! To be continued, us dealing with that garbage!
I am so glad we are engaging again. I missed you. I am so lousy at conflict resolution and sometimes hair-trigger emotional and I am sorry and will try to do better with both.
You take care. best, libby xxx
you get to be "right" no doubt about it, but your "solution" is nothing more than defaulting to the exact forces you despise. perhaps, charley brown's great grandson will arrive before you die and become your new messiah.
sorry, Ben, for unleashing frustration on you earlier! I can't help thinking the pragmatic way is the sell out way. we don't have enough healthy people IN THE SYSTEM to clean it out. They are all compromised by their own participation in group evil. I want the citizen family to get it collectively and participate in a humanism paradigm shift, a re-start operation. But I see the media as being such a horrifying propaganda tool and bottle-necker.
BUT IS THAT REALLY TOO MUCH TO ASK?
On the other hand, my favorite quote is "Hope was the last temptation of Christ."
So I do see what I am asking. And I always have loved very human and trusting Charlie Brown. I wish the energy of the younger and the experience of the older could work together on this. Asking a lot.
Thanks for your visit, btw.
best, libby
BUT IS THAT REALLY TOO MUCH TO ASK?
On the other hand, my favorite quote is "Hope was the last temptation of Christ."
So I do see what I am asking. And I always have loved very human and trusting Charlie Brown. I wish the energy of the younger and the experience of the older could work together on this. Asking a lot.
Thanks for your visit, btw.
best, libby
Erica, I didn't see your post there at firs. Yes these statistics are mind bending!!! When I read yours and the ones on hunger and war deaths and troop deaths and suicides and deaths from crap health care or none at all. Yesterday hearing a story about how 1000 women a day are raped in the Congo. That can't be right, can it? But they claimed 12% of these women have been traumatized by rape(s) in the entire country. Can you imagine? I don't want to. And are these obscene degrees of cruelty and crises being addressed? By our leadership and our bullshit big media? WTF???? best, libby
It's time for a $5 a gallon tax on gas. Let's take the Middle East and their product out of the equation.
@Peter,
Yup! That'll do it all right. Our economy would collapse in an instant when people can't afford to get to work and the price of groceries doubles because of the cost of getting them to market doubles. Once our economy collapses we'll not worry much about the Middle East at all, at all.........Hah!
Of course we could use the much vaunted "American Know-How" to just shoot everyone and save them the trouble of starving to death. That'd make Americans very "exceptional" indeed!
.
Yup! That'll do it all right. Our economy would collapse in an instant when people can't afford to get to work and the price of groceries doubles because of the cost of getting them to market doubles. Once our economy collapses we'll not worry much about the Middle East at all, at all.........Hah!
Of course we could use the much vaunted "American Know-How" to just shoot everyone and save them the trouble of starving to death. That'd make Americans very "exceptional" indeed!
.
Libby,
When I see a broken drain-pipe under my sink, and you see the same broken drain-pipe under my sink, and the most rabid fascist around sees the same broken drain-pipe under my sink, that DOES NOT mean that we all agree on how to fix that drain-pipe.
It is all very well to see the same problems as socialists do - heck the doggone problems exist! I can empathize with socialists or others who see the problems just as I do. But I just don't see that their "solutions" are actually workable. They've never worked up until now and I see no reason to suddenly think that they will be of any good use to us at this time.
We need to get the hell away from the idea that says "all we need are the right people running things and all will be well." We need to drop the concept that says that we can put management of our society into the hands of a few people and expect them to look after our interests ahead of their own. It just ain't gonna happen!
History is replete with examples of every doggone kind of government and 'leader' imaginable. One thing that ALWAYS happens is that it NEVER works out well for all the people. Never. Not ever. Nada. Zilch success. You'd think we'd have figured out by now that this just CANNOT ever work!!
We need to do it differently. The old adage of, "If you want a thing done right, you have to do it yourself" needs to be brought out and given a try. It's time to topple the pyramid of power and "do it ourselves." True, democratic authority DOES NOT drain down from the top of a freakin' pyramid of power. Fascist power does that. Totalitarian power does that. But not true democratic power. Democratic power is spread horizontally among all the population. All the capable persons in a society must have both a bit of power and a bit of responsibility commensurate with that power. A bit. Not enough to make anyone a "mover & shaker" and not for any great length of time. Just each person giving to his society a small portion of his time as a servant of / contributor to, his society. Spread the responsibility, spread the authority, spread the work. No big shots 'running' things. Just us, sharing the load for our mutual benefit. Just us taking care of us. Not me taking care of me in competition with you taking care of you.
Competition is fine when it is for 'extras'. It is horrendous, as we know all too well, when it is for necessities and/or survival. Let us cooperate for those necessities and for survival and only then compete joyfully for the extras, if - and only IF - we wish to. Let us have a chance to look upon each other as potential friends rather than as potential prey.
;-)
.
When I see a broken drain-pipe under my sink, and you see the same broken drain-pipe under my sink, and the most rabid fascist around sees the same broken drain-pipe under my sink, that DOES NOT mean that we all agree on how to fix that drain-pipe.
It is all very well to see the same problems as socialists do - heck the doggone problems exist! I can empathize with socialists or others who see the problems just as I do. But I just don't see that their "solutions" are actually workable. They've never worked up until now and I see no reason to suddenly think that they will be of any good use to us at this time.
We need to get the hell away from the idea that says "all we need are the right people running things and all will be well." We need to drop the concept that says that we can put management of our society into the hands of a few people and expect them to look after our interests ahead of their own. It just ain't gonna happen!
History is replete with examples of every doggone kind of government and 'leader' imaginable. One thing that ALWAYS happens is that it NEVER works out well for all the people. Never. Not ever. Nada. Zilch success. You'd think we'd have figured out by now that this just CANNOT ever work!!
We need to do it differently. The old adage of, "If you want a thing done right, you have to do it yourself" needs to be brought out and given a try. It's time to topple the pyramid of power and "do it ourselves." True, democratic authority DOES NOT drain down from the top of a freakin' pyramid of power. Fascist power does that. Totalitarian power does that. But not true democratic power. Democratic power is spread horizontally among all the population. All the capable persons in a society must have both a bit of power and a bit of responsibility commensurate with that power. A bit. Not enough to make anyone a "mover & shaker" and not for any great length of time. Just each person giving to his society a small portion of his time as a servant of / contributor to, his society. Spread the responsibility, spread the authority, spread the work. No big shots 'running' things. Just us, sharing the load for our mutual benefit. Just us taking care of us. Not me taking care of me in competition with you taking care of you.
Competition is fine when it is for 'extras'. It is horrendous, as we know all too well, when it is for necessities and/or survival. Let us cooperate for those necessities and for survival and only then compete joyfully for the extras, if - and only IF - we wish to. Let us have a chance to look upon each other as potential friends rather than as potential prey.
;-)
.
hey sky. yes, I do see or am trying to see what you are saying about participatory democracy or is that not the right term for it. a much more full out democracy? Or a more communal cooperative local kind of relating of citizens?
i know what we had in the US before this fascism of the oligarchs was a constitutional republic. and the founding fathers put in the checks and balances system which is now 3-way corrupted.
I think we do live in an extraordinary spiritually dark age, but i also know that process addictions like greed and theft and substance abuse when not confronted and challenged and curbed continue on to obscene levels.
i watched bill moyers show last night and he had on Pierson and Hacker talking about their book something like Winner Take All Politics and it was so depressing. they showed a chart of just how much profit-making the 1 percent had done in the past decades as opposed to the 99% and the final column for the profit 1% kept climbing and climbing and climbing upwards and stunned moyers and the audience. they said that if they had graphed the profit of the top .01% instead of just the 1% they would have needed much more paper to give it height.
They said politics was responsible for getting us into this mess. Cronyism of greed. The abandonment of responsibility to those they constitutionally were supposed to represent by ALL THE POLITICIANS. And that the system is still captured. And that the politicians are conning the public by saying it is all about economics and technology and education when it is about betrayal and self-interest run amok doesn't begin to describe it.
Cronyism for evil, all those years of the lobbyists taking Congress people out to dinner and showering them with perks and giving their loved ones jobs on corporate boards and CORRUPTION CORRUPTION CORRUPTION.
But I hear you saying that a certain degree of benign cronyism is necessary for citizens to bond and work together as long as there is awareness and vigilance and win/win benefits. You believe that. And to organize it how? from the grassroots with a simpler organization or gathering if that makes you more comfortable of people working together.
So many of us in this commercial culture with the razzle dazzle performances on the tube of media personalities and political personalities making use of cronyism with media personalities get enthralled to the gamesmanship of both groups. We become enthralled and lost in passivity. Also, I think our so called representatives are pre-selected by the powers that be rabid rat bastards and get pushed onto us and the voters make assumptions based on personalities not character and principles and policies being shared and examined. Not examined by the craven media, Skewed and propagandized or ignored. Confusion then happens ... "fusion" "with".
Pete Seeger said think globally and act locally. That is where it begins.
I think I frame the issue and maybe you are shaking your head reading this, don't know and I am sorry if you are, as the importance of individualism and critical thinking. Of anti-cronyism and moral thinking and feeling as well. The exercise of conscience as well as will and intelligence.
I think the US school system, despite some awesome teachers within it now under siege, is structured for "efficiency" and not empathy. Judging and bureaucracy is prioritized far more than empathy and independent thinking and performing. Once again an enthrallment to a reined in authority or teachers who have potential reined in by authority with low tolerance standards for independent thought and behavior and harsh consequences to maintain that order and environment of conformity.
What say you about Milgram's experiments whereby 66% of the subjects of his New Haven experiments were willing to literally shock fellow strangers -- fellow human beings -- because an authority, also a stranger, in a white coat told them to? They weren't happy to do it, but they were capable of doing that because they were fearful and felt better the other guy should suffer more than them at the hands of the unexpectedly non-empathetic authority. I was glad to hear the other 40% were not willing to shock the faux-subjects.
Isn't there a Canadian man who has written a serious treatise about authoritarian followers? Bob Anderson is that his name? I read parts of it long ago.
Alice Miller is a brilliant psychologist and she wrote books about trauma theory and she maintains that the family upbringing and religiosity or what she calls poisonous pedagoguy corrupts social networks in making people more susceptible to obeying blindly authoritarian power and control. She said that is what ripened things up for Hitler and his power over the good Germans. Though I see "good Germanhood" here in the US in spades.
I look at the political and oligarchical elite using the police and military to protect their own craven needs. Our prisons bulging with victims of that system, many drug users who need rehabilitation and not punishment and many unfortunate minorities who were over-punished in a double standard society. And our police state now lowering the boom so that dissidents will join those ranks in prison. As the really BIG TIME MASSIVE CRIMINALS are running the government and socking away billions of dollars with no obstructions in sight thanks to BOTH LEGACY PARTIES.
sky, I wish you would describe more your ideal vision of society that has a chance to sustain itself. I do see the pyramiding happening the bigger the organization out of the necessity of efficiency, how can this practically be circumvented. But I also believe in the feminist paradigm or humanist paradigm of lateral cooperation and partnership when GOOD PEOPLE DON'T DO NOTHING!!!
At OWS meetings i was impressed with the democracy but the open mic thing and people voting on things en masse did work but I also talked with occupiers who said the group thing could be exhausting and I also came to see how a lot was being done via committees not in the huge groups. Does the committee thing suit your vision or is that the beginning of hierarchy? Some people are better in some things than others. I believe we should stay aware of what is going on, have transparency, but also contribute what we are gifted in for the good of the society no matter how large. I see right now people spread apart though they are fighting the good fight in their particular social issues but not working together. The oligarchs and pols and military gamesman have joined each other like a mafia and are easily picking us off and thwarting us group by group. i know the environmentalists globally have made strides to work together.
i do think the Democratic party was once upon a time more of an umbrella for humanitarian liberal groups. that is why I hope the Greens could offer an umbrella structure for people if it can not be corrupted by power as you say from the top. Citizen-reps rather than professional slick politicians who quickly become cronied up gamesmen and women.
My corporation I work for near the bottom (am I) is being more and more abusive to me and in a better economy I would be long gone but I feel indentured there because of my fear of joblessness and therefor eventual homelessness if I lose said job, though the powers there may terminate me anyway and the chronic abuse of me and my fellows is escalating, we like the boiled frogs but especially me for communicating reality to a corrupt and non-empathetic management are more and more slaves of oppression.
turning it around?
this was written quickly and gotta go back to bed and finish sleep. thanks for writing back.
best, libby
i know what we had in the US before this fascism of the oligarchs was a constitutional republic. and the founding fathers put in the checks and balances system which is now 3-way corrupted.
I think we do live in an extraordinary spiritually dark age, but i also know that process addictions like greed and theft and substance abuse when not confronted and challenged and curbed continue on to obscene levels.
i watched bill moyers show last night and he had on Pierson and Hacker talking about their book something like Winner Take All Politics and it was so depressing. they showed a chart of just how much profit-making the 1 percent had done in the past decades as opposed to the 99% and the final column for the profit 1% kept climbing and climbing and climbing upwards and stunned moyers and the audience. they said that if they had graphed the profit of the top .01% instead of just the 1% they would have needed much more paper to give it height.
They said politics was responsible for getting us into this mess. Cronyism of greed. The abandonment of responsibility to those they constitutionally were supposed to represent by ALL THE POLITICIANS. And that the system is still captured. And that the politicians are conning the public by saying it is all about economics and technology and education when it is about betrayal and self-interest run amok doesn't begin to describe it.
Cronyism for evil, all those years of the lobbyists taking Congress people out to dinner and showering them with perks and giving their loved ones jobs on corporate boards and CORRUPTION CORRUPTION CORRUPTION.
But I hear you saying that a certain degree of benign cronyism is necessary for citizens to bond and work together as long as there is awareness and vigilance and win/win benefits. You believe that. And to organize it how? from the grassroots with a simpler organization or gathering if that makes you more comfortable of people working together.
So many of us in this commercial culture with the razzle dazzle performances on the tube of media personalities and political personalities making use of cronyism with media personalities get enthralled to the gamesmanship of both groups. We become enthralled and lost in passivity. Also, I think our so called representatives are pre-selected by the powers that be rabid rat bastards and get pushed onto us and the voters make assumptions based on personalities not character and principles and policies being shared and examined. Not examined by the craven media, Skewed and propagandized or ignored. Confusion then happens ... "fusion" "with".
Pete Seeger said think globally and act locally. That is where it begins.
I think I frame the issue and maybe you are shaking your head reading this, don't know and I am sorry if you are, as the importance of individualism and critical thinking. Of anti-cronyism and moral thinking and feeling as well. The exercise of conscience as well as will and intelligence.
I think the US school system, despite some awesome teachers within it now under siege, is structured for "efficiency" and not empathy. Judging and bureaucracy is prioritized far more than empathy and independent thinking and performing. Once again an enthrallment to a reined in authority or teachers who have potential reined in by authority with low tolerance standards for independent thought and behavior and harsh consequences to maintain that order and environment of conformity.
What say you about Milgram's experiments whereby 66% of the subjects of his New Haven experiments were willing to literally shock fellow strangers -- fellow human beings -- because an authority, also a stranger, in a white coat told them to? They weren't happy to do it, but they were capable of doing that because they were fearful and felt better the other guy should suffer more than them at the hands of the unexpectedly non-empathetic authority. I was glad to hear the other 40% were not willing to shock the faux-subjects.
Isn't there a Canadian man who has written a serious treatise about authoritarian followers? Bob Anderson is that his name? I read parts of it long ago.
Alice Miller is a brilliant psychologist and she wrote books about trauma theory and she maintains that the family upbringing and religiosity or what she calls poisonous pedagoguy corrupts social networks in making people more susceptible to obeying blindly authoritarian power and control. She said that is what ripened things up for Hitler and his power over the good Germans. Though I see "good Germanhood" here in the US in spades.
I look at the political and oligarchical elite using the police and military to protect their own craven needs. Our prisons bulging with victims of that system, many drug users who need rehabilitation and not punishment and many unfortunate minorities who were over-punished in a double standard society. And our police state now lowering the boom so that dissidents will join those ranks in prison. As the really BIG TIME MASSIVE CRIMINALS are running the government and socking away billions of dollars with no obstructions in sight thanks to BOTH LEGACY PARTIES.
sky, I wish you would describe more your ideal vision of society that has a chance to sustain itself. I do see the pyramiding happening the bigger the organization out of the necessity of efficiency, how can this practically be circumvented. But I also believe in the feminist paradigm or humanist paradigm of lateral cooperation and partnership when GOOD PEOPLE DON'T DO NOTHING!!!
At OWS meetings i was impressed with the democracy but the open mic thing and people voting on things en masse did work but I also talked with occupiers who said the group thing could be exhausting and I also came to see how a lot was being done via committees not in the huge groups. Does the committee thing suit your vision or is that the beginning of hierarchy? Some people are better in some things than others. I believe we should stay aware of what is going on, have transparency, but also contribute what we are gifted in for the good of the society no matter how large. I see right now people spread apart though they are fighting the good fight in their particular social issues but not working together. The oligarchs and pols and military gamesman have joined each other like a mafia and are easily picking us off and thwarting us group by group. i know the environmentalists globally have made strides to work together.
i do think the Democratic party was once upon a time more of an umbrella for humanitarian liberal groups. that is why I hope the Greens could offer an umbrella structure for people if it can not be corrupted by power as you say from the top. Citizen-reps rather than professional slick politicians who quickly become cronied up gamesmen and women.
My corporation I work for near the bottom (am I) is being more and more abusive to me and in a better economy I would be long gone but I feel indentured there because of my fear of joblessness and therefor eventual homelessness if I lose said job, though the powers there may terminate me anyway and the chronic abuse of me and my fellows is escalating, we like the boiled frogs but especially me for communicating reality to a corrupt and non-empathetic management are more and more slaves of oppression.
turning it around?
this was written quickly and gotta go back to bed and finish sleep. thanks for writing back.
best, libby
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