Marc Rubin calls it "Battered Obama Syndrome."
I have got to herald Marc Rubin’s (“tom in paine”’s) so deserved, delicious and yet depressing diatribe against the colossal impotence of collective doormat TEAM DEM as Obama continues to amiably and relentlessly dismantle democracy . Un-friggin'-believable.
Rubin launches :
I received an email not too long ago from the Progressive Change Campaign Committee asking me to sign a petition that threatened Obama by telling him that if he sold out on social security and Medicare, they would, in no uncertain terms vote for him anyway.
I'm not kidding. That's what it said. If there has ever been a weaker more pathetic more useless political threat ever made I haven't seen it.
This, it seems, is what it is to be a "progressive". And they really wonder why they didn't get a public option, a decent financial reform law and an end to the Bush tax cuts and why Obama is ready to sell out anything to get a deal on the debt ceiling.
Rubin explains that the Progressive Campaign Change Committee a/k/a (oxymoronically) “Bold Progressives” managed to get 200,000 signatures to challenge the White House about its threats to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. 200,000 signatures. GREAT! EXCEPT .... their threat was TO REFUSE TO DONATE OR VOLUNTEER FOR OBAMA’S RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN if he cuts entitlements. At the same time, they make it crystal clear they still intend to vote for him whatever he does.
"It's not a question of who they're going to support for president, they're going to vote for Barrack Obama. It's a question of where their time and money is going to go," spokesman T. Neil Sroka said."
WTF
????? Like he needs ANY of us to work for him and give him money, as if we had money to give to him thanks to his Wall-Street-loving economy, after Obama has basketed and will continue to reap the millions and millions of bribes he came through on and continues to come through on for the rabid rat bastard corporatist pimps during his anti-the-common-good years in office. HAH!!!!!
????? Like he needs ANY of us to work for him and give him money, as if we had money to give to him thanks to his Wall-Street-loving economy, after Obama has basketed and will continue to reap the millions and millions of bribes he came through on and continues to come through on for the rabid rat bastard corporatist pimps during his anti-the-common-good years in office. HAH!!!!!
Obama does, however, need VOTES, Rubin points out, and APPARENTLY THE FECKLESS FAUX-PROGRESSIVES JUST CAN’T SEEM TO GO THAT FAR IN WITHHOLDING THEM. ARE THERE REALLY STILL SO MANY MORALLY MYOPIC AND MENTALLY CHALLENGED DEM LEMMINGS LEFT?
Rubin points out that the Tea Partiers scare the ever-loving sh*t out of the Republican politicians by declaring NO VOTES if the empathy-challenged Republicans don’t knuckle under to their mandates. These politicians see blood in the Tea Partiers’ eyes. Tea Partiers may be heartless but they sure ain’t gutless.
What does Obama see among the impotently petulant faux-progressive WIMPY WIMPY WIMPY Dems? Nothing. He isn’t even looking in their direction. Obama hasn’t bothered to look even a fraction to the left since he entered office.
Rubin’s take:
While these groups are filled with well meaning people with good intentions, they are obviously still bamboozled over race, afraid to criticize, afraid to get tough, afraid to dump Obama as so many others finally have and are still suffering from Battered Obama Syndrome, refusing to leave, refusing to say enough is enough, and coming back for more. The proof of their ineffective politicking is they have gotten zero results in two years even though Democrats had the biggest majority in 60 years. And what did they expect with threats like " we will vote for you anyway even if you lie again and betray again everything we believe in".
What's needed in the Democratic party finally is a real revolt among liberals to remake the Democratic party and get as tough with Democratic politicians and Obama as the Tea Party gets with Republicans. And that means letting the Democrats know they will not under any circumstances vote for Obama in the next presidential election or any Democrat who supports his policies, and start demanding that a credible Democrat challenge Obama in the primaries for the nomination.
That is the only way real progress can be made and unless liberals and even the groups that call themselves progressive, like the PCCC and MoveOn make it clear they've had it with Obama's sell outs, his brazen lies and his total lack of principle and conviction, Democrats and Obama are going to continue to get steam rolled by Republicans who show they are just tougher than they are even when all of the facts are against them and all of the facts AND proven results are on the Democrats' side.
We need to pledge NOT to vote for Obama. I PLEDGE! When do we say ENOUGH? Let the lost lemmings attend a 12-step group for “Dems Who Love Obama Too Much” so the rest of us can begin to recover our democracy.
[cross-posted at correntewire and sacramento for democracy]
------------
Whoever told you that the Democrats are "left" politically anyway?
The major difference between the two parties is, ...... is, ......is yet to be discovered. Both parties support the elite who fund them. Both parties obey their financial masters in all things. Both parties support greed capitalism. Both parties are made up of elite 'wanna-be' arrogant, conscienceless, egotistical, self-aggrandizing, types who only use voters as ass-wipe; and even at that, only during election times. Both think that the voter/citizens ought to just STFU and, after electing them, pay taxes, taxes and more taxes.
The only real surprise is that there are still some who profess to think otherwise.
What world do you live in?
Obama is what he always was - a greed capitalist, elite supporting politician. Politicians lie. Politicians ALWAYS lie. That's what a politician does, for Pete's sake. It's their job. Get over it.
If you want a socialist (mis-named "progressive") government, put together a socialist party and get it elected.
.
The major difference between the two parties is, ...... is, ......is yet to be discovered. Both parties support the elite who fund them. Both parties obey their financial masters in all things. Both parties support greed capitalism. Both parties are made up of elite 'wanna-be' arrogant, conscienceless, egotistical, self-aggrandizing, types who only use voters as ass-wipe; and even at that, only during election times. Both think that the voter/citizens ought to just STFU and, after electing them, pay taxes, taxes and more taxes.
The only real surprise is that there are still some who profess to think otherwise.
What world do you live in?
Obama is what he always was - a greed capitalist, elite supporting politician. Politicians lie. Politicians ALWAYS lie. That's what a politician does, for Pete's sake. It's their job. Get over it.
If you want a socialist (mis-named "progressive") government, put together a socialist party and get it elected.
.
I think Your blog post is superb, and I've, already, told the white house, that regardless of whatever fawning he may offer between now and the election, the damage he's done, already is irreparable.
If there is no suitable, democratic challenger, I'll write in whomever I feel like. At the moment, I'd like to see them give Kucinich a shot, but they, always, find a way to marginalize anyone who doesn't toe the party line.
Rated for astute understanding of how the system works.
-R-
If there is no suitable, democratic challenger, I'll write in whomever I feel like. At the moment, I'd like to see them give Kucinich a shot, but they, always, find a way to marginalize anyone who doesn't toe the party line.
Rated for astute understanding of how the system works.
-R-
skypix, we have gamesmen not statesmen. MLK, RFK were statesmen. Obama postured as one and he was a cruel mirage -- really Trojan Horse -- after the nightmare of Bush. Charles Ferguson of Inside Job credits Obama with wiping out political idealism for the next generation or two.
If the bastards of the universe weren't so afraid of socialism, they wouldn't have done such a bloody fine job of vilifying it to drown out any intelligent conversation about healthcare with all their shyster astroturfing. They expanded and guaranteed fascism by making "socialism" the demon the same way the earlier bastards of the universe exploited the specter of "communism." How the military industrial complex turned into such a Frankenstein monster.
Mark, thanks for your kindred sensibility on this and the inspiration! If you are conversing with Frank, tell him "Game on!"
Kate, I'm not your hon and hope we can keep the patronizing rhetoric and tone to a minimum, having undergone that from a few men here already. Be nice not to have the personal condescension from the women who more likely have suffered through it and should know better.
And you are describing with your references to the Repub women a "false choice" framed by the media and bastards of the universe who want us to believe we can only have evil tweedle-dumb or evil tweedle-dumber. Who want the people of conscience minimized, marginalized, totally disenfranchised, or in the case of really brave whistleblowing ones locked up, tortured or killed.
For the first time I have real hope. OS progressives who should have a dog in this race, a real dog in political elections who would actually win for them, are dialoguing about Obama's record and the political blackmail going on and it inspires me. That maybe the "too smart for their own good" opportunistic betraying Dem strategist triangulators are gonna have to start scuttling for a real Dem Party candidate for 2012, not a brand but a person of character not a low-experience, morally compassless, hyped up personality, although that would be a serious long shot (I would like to see Kucinich, too, Mark, or Feingold or RFK, Jr. or Sanders or ... well there are decent, smart and ready people) and/or maybe too we can get some third parties going. Green party values remind me of the 12-step principles, and we need a counterculture of DECENCY and integrity. There is a global cyber-counterculture happening which is good and fighting back media disinformation and real news blackouts.
Maybe the Dem party is too rotten and saturated with corruption to begin to change. Only can work on impression management with its buddy the amoral media.
Obama will not make it as a candidate I hope but having him as president again would be further damaging -- I would rather deal with the devil I know right now and get rid of him. Maybe Obama is not the devil. Maybe he is just a weak enabler of devils. Either way, evil prevails.
Obama would continue to negatively impact the world and the globe, he is a war criminal and a corporate-enabling criminal.
The only hope we have is to try to find a decent American to run for the President. There are potential people out there. Just such a shame so much of the scum in America has risen to the top in terms of politics, business and the media. Losing a remotely honest fourth estate as well as the betrayal to average Americans by Oprah's cronyism and people like her who betrayed the public trust let a callow opportunist and a front man for the oligarchs as Glen Ford calls him obstruct the recovery this country so desperately needs.
But people are waking up to the tremendous corruption. And courage is contagious. I am grateful for the warmth of hope in my own heart. Pete Seeger says think globally work locally. People are doing both. More and more will. We think there aren't as many real liberals as there are. Just because the media never tallied their numbers protesting over these years.
Obama apologists? D-E-N-I-A-L a/k/a "Don't Even Notice I Am Lying". I wish people would exit the five stages of grief, especially the bargaining one, and get over Obama as not the change we could believe in.
The season for hypocrits is coming to a close. Take note, Barack! You got down with dogs and you got up with fleas and you gave them to the whole country. We were traumatized by Bush and you walked all over us, you and your slick "handlers", because we were burned out and vulnerable and gullible. You've had more benefits of the doubt than anyone in politics deserves. ENOUGH!
Obama deserves impeachment as did Bush. Not running him in 2012 is a far more modest proposal imho.
If the bastards of the universe weren't so afraid of socialism, they wouldn't have done such a bloody fine job of vilifying it to drown out any intelligent conversation about healthcare with all their shyster astroturfing. They expanded and guaranteed fascism by making "socialism" the demon the same way the earlier bastards of the universe exploited the specter of "communism." How the military industrial complex turned into such a Frankenstein monster.
Mark, thanks for your kindred sensibility on this and the inspiration! If you are conversing with Frank, tell him "Game on!"
Kate, I'm not your hon and hope we can keep the patronizing rhetoric and tone to a minimum, having undergone that from a few men here already. Be nice not to have the personal condescension from the women who more likely have suffered through it and should know better.
And you are describing with your references to the Repub women a "false choice" framed by the media and bastards of the universe who want us to believe we can only have evil tweedle-dumb or evil tweedle-dumber. Who want the people of conscience minimized, marginalized, totally disenfranchised, or in the case of really brave whistleblowing ones locked up, tortured or killed.
For the first time I have real hope. OS progressives who should have a dog in this race, a real dog in political elections who would actually win for them, are dialoguing about Obama's record and the political blackmail going on and it inspires me. That maybe the "too smart for their own good" opportunistic betraying Dem strategist triangulators are gonna have to start scuttling for a real Dem Party candidate for 2012, not a brand but a person of character not a low-experience, morally compassless, hyped up personality, although that would be a serious long shot (I would like to see Kucinich, too, Mark, or Feingold or RFK, Jr. or Sanders or ... well there are decent, smart and ready people) and/or maybe too we can get some third parties going. Green party values remind me of the 12-step principles, and we need a counterculture of DECENCY and integrity. There is a global cyber-counterculture happening which is good and fighting back media disinformation and real news blackouts.
Maybe the Dem party is too rotten and saturated with corruption to begin to change. Only can work on impression management with its buddy the amoral media.
Obama will not make it as a candidate I hope but having him as president again would be further damaging -- I would rather deal with the devil I know right now and get rid of him. Maybe Obama is not the devil. Maybe he is just a weak enabler of devils. Either way, evil prevails.
Obama would continue to negatively impact the world and the globe, he is a war criminal and a corporate-enabling criminal.
The only hope we have is to try to find a decent American to run for the President. There are potential people out there. Just such a shame so much of the scum in America has risen to the top in terms of politics, business and the media. Losing a remotely honest fourth estate as well as the betrayal to average Americans by Oprah's cronyism and people like her who betrayed the public trust let a callow opportunist and a front man for the oligarchs as Glen Ford calls him obstruct the recovery this country so desperately needs.
But people are waking up to the tremendous corruption. And courage is contagious. I am grateful for the warmth of hope in my own heart. Pete Seeger says think globally work locally. People are doing both. More and more will. We think there aren't as many real liberals as there are. Just because the media never tallied their numbers protesting over these years.
Obama apologists? D-E-N-I-A-L a/k/a "Don't Even Notice I Am Lying". I wish people would exit the five stages of grief, especially the bargaining one, and get over Obama as not the change we could believe in.
The season for hypocrits is coming to a close. Take note, Barack! You got down with dogs and you got up with fleas and you gave them to the whole country. We were traumatized by Bush and you walked all over us, you and your slick "handlers", because we were burned out and vulnerable and gullible. You've had more benefits of the doubt than anyone in politics deserves. ENOUGH!
Obama deserves impeachment as did Bush. Not running him in 2012 is a far more modest proposal imho.
Well-poken and articulated, AS USUAL.
Kate...great response.
Apparently some people realize that cutting off one's nose to spite one's face is a terrible idea.
Libby...you are allowing your anger to trump your common sense. If your position prevails; Obama loses; one of the Republican Tea Party vetted candidate wins...you, our country, and humanity in general LOSE!
Not sure why you cannot see that, but...
Apparently some people realize that cutting off one's nose to spite one's face is a terrible idea.
Libby...you are allowing your anger to trump your common sense. If your position prevails; Obama loses; one of the Republican Tea Party vetted candidate wins...you, our country, and humanity in general LOSE!
Not sure why you cannot see that, but...
Libby, don't You realize that dickhead apisa knows all and understands all -- when are You gonna get on the apisa (sh*t) bandwgon?
Frank, does Obama get to act ABOVE THE LAW? I said on another comment he treats the Constitution and the Law of the land as if an annoying suggestion box he has the right to ignore. Bush did so, he is too, and going even farther. He doesn't have the legal or constitutional right, but because of corrupt legislative and judiciary branches he is not being held accountable. Nor is a corrupt mainstream media holding him or the other branches accountable.
That leaves us, Frank, the people, to call him out and do what we can to repair a rotten system.
Cronyism is dangerous. Republican cronyism perpetrated unspeakable things during the Bush years. Democratic cronyism, horrifyingly as in bed with the big money boys and girls as much as the Republicans were it would seem, is also perpetrating horrors. Does it bring you comfort to think they are lesser ones?
I also wrote about the pedestrians during the 2010 election when I was passing out leaflets who kept obsessing about the issue of "not winning" to even begin to consider the Green Party or its candidates in NY. Winning, winning, winning. Not much talk about peace, justice, empathy -- as if they were irrelevant. Change can't happen if we can't win IMMEDIATELY ... and committing to change by joining a citizen marathon didn't capture many imaginations. But I hope that will change. We deserve better than the exploiting lesser of two evils. Geeeeeez.
Cronyism of Democrats, the rank and file. Hard to admit to working and voting for a candidate that betrayed. Willingness to embrace the "ends justifies the means" and go after those annoying "purists" messengers of conscience talking about integrity and principle. Obama's campaign lies are just SOP and let him bait and switch and play Lucy and the football all he wants with the constituents because politicians do that and that is how it goes? When will his tipping point be reached? Never? What group will get thrown under the bus by him that seriously matters enough to the Dem rank and file? What bill of right will matter enough that he ignores? What country he declares war on will be the ultimate for the rank and file? It is like boiling frogs the incremental but profound violations he is committing, the tipping point won't be reached. Just a kind of amassing and profound learned helplessness. A national Stockholm Syndrome on steroids.
No one seems to be denying the economic raping and military raping and killing on such a grand scale being perpetrated by the leadership in this country, including the Dems. Do they really think Obama is just a victim in all this? Do they really think he is effectually holding back the exploitation and violence? Do Dems really think Obama has such limited power or is sincerely doing all that he can because of those demons on the right?
Obama jumped the shark re ethics, empathy and legality. He can twist the letter of the law after the fact all he wants apparently, as did Bush. But the essence of the law we all know in our hearts. Time to come clean with that.
Principles above personality. Personality is about cronyism. Principles are about moral and legal law. Whether in the country. On this website.
The group-think of cronyism is seductive. It has to be recognized if we are to rebuild the foundations of our democracy. Jefferson said the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We dropped the ball after the Vietnam era. It is not too late and it is a fight worth waging. Not as divided citizens in groups the bastards of the universe are stoking the tensions between, but mature citizens dealing with facts and principles.
We have a lot of smoke and fog and mirrors coming at us as citizens on both the left and the right. Media, politicians and corporate pimps want a citizenry disempowered and confused, "fused with" their front men and women, at each other's throats more than working together for their collective welfare. Their common oppression.
That leaves us, Frank, the people, to call him out and do what we can to repair a rotten system.
Cronyism is dangerous. Republican cronyism perpetrated unspeakable things during the Bush years. Democratic cronyism, horrifyingly as in bed with the big money boys and girls as much as the Republicans were it would seem, is also perpetrating horrors. Does it bring you comfort to think they are lesser ones?
I also wrote about the pedestrians during the 2010 election when I was passing out leaflets who kept obsessing about the issue of "not winning" to even begin to consider the Green Party or its candidates in NY. Winning, winning, winning. Not much talk about peace, justice, empathy -- as if they were irrelevant. Change can't happen if we can't win IMMEDIATELY ... and committing to change by joining a citizen marathon didn't capture many imaginations. But I hope that will change. We deserve better than the exploiting lesser of two evils. Geeeeeez.
Cronyism of Democrats, the rank and file. Hard to admit to working and voting for a candidate that betrayed. Willingness to embrace the "ends justifies the means" and go after those annoying "purists" messengers of conscience talking about integrity and principle. Obama's campaign lies are just SOP and let him bait and switch and play Lucy and the football all he wants with the constituents because politicians do that and that is how it goes? When will his tipping point be reached? Never? What group will get thrown under the bus by him that seriously matters enough to the Dem rank and file? What bill of right will matter enough that he ignores? What country he declares war on will be the ultimate for the rank and file? It is like boiling frogs the incremental but profound violations he is committing, the tipping point won't be reached. Just a kind of amassing and profound learned helplessness. A national Stockholm Syndrome on steroids.
No one seems to be denying the economic raping and military raping and killing on such a grand scale being perpetrated by the leadership in this country, including the Dems. Do they really think Obama is just a victim in all this? Do they really think he is effectually holding back the exploitation and violence? Do Dems really think Obama has such limited power or is sincerely doing all that he can because of those demons on the right?
Obama jumped the shark re ethics, empathy and legality. He can twist the letter of the law after the fact all he wants apparently, as did Bush. But the essence of the law we all know in our hearts. Time to come clean with that.
Principles above personality. Personality is about cronyism. Principles are about moral and legal law. Whether in the country. On this website.
The group-think of cronyism is seductive. It has to be recognized if we are to rebuild the foundations of our democracy. Jefferson said the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We dropped the ball after the Vietnam era. It is not too late and it is a fight worth waging. Not as divided citizens in groups the bastards of the universe are stoking the tensions between, but mature citizens dealing with facts and principles.
We have a lot of smoke and fog and mirrors coming at us as citizens on both the left and the right. Media, politicians and corporate pimps want a citizenry disempowered and confused, "fused with" their front men and women, at each other's throats more than working together for their collective welfare. Their common oppression.
Once again, I must add that speaking of principles to frank is futile - he thinks principles run schools, and that morals are a genus of mushrooms.
Libby…
…I understand your frustration and anger, but there are times when the better of two evils is the logical choice…in fact, there are times where it is essentially the ONLY choice. I think we are at that point in our political predicament here in America.
I do think “the people” should call him out where they think proper and necessary…and I have no problem with you doing so. But I keep going back to the alternative to supporting him…which is, in my opinion, going over to the dark side.
I think “third parties” are a fantasy right now…and I think votes for a third party are wasted votes. I understand that decent, intelligent, reasonable people disagree with me on that…but that is my opinion. My guess is if those parties ever came to power, they would exhibit as much corruption and other troublesome aspects as do the Republicans and Democrats now.
You will not get all of what you want out of Obama…but you will not get all of what you want out of any Democrat or liberal. It cannot be done right now…the country is not ready for it.
Vote your principles…as I will vote mine. Mine are that I must protect the country and the rest of humanity from the excesses of American conservatism.
Obviously we will continue to disagree. I will do my best to disagree with you as respectfully of you and your position as possible. Thanks for at least hearing me out.
f.
…I understand your frustration and anger, but there are times when the better of two evils is the logical choice…in fact, there are times where it is essentially the ONLY choice. I think we are at that point in our political predicament here in America.
I do think “the people” should call him out where they think proper and necessary…and I have no problem with you doing so. But I keep going back to the alternative to supporting him…which is, in my opinion, going over to the dark side.
I think “third parties” are a fantasy right now…and I think votes for a third party are wasted votes. I understand that decent, intelligent, reasonable people disagree with me on that…but that is my opinion. My guess is if those parties ever came to power, they would exhibit as much corruption and other troublesome aspects as do the Republicans and Democrats now.
You will not get all of what you want out of Obama…but you will not get all of what you want out of any Democrat or liberal. It cannot be done right now…the country is not ready for it.
Vote your principles…as I will vote mine. Mine are that I must protect the country and the rest of humanity from the excesses of American conservatism.
Obviously we will continue to disagree. I will do my best to disagree with you as respectfully of you and your position as possible. Thanks for at least hearing me out.
f.
"It's not a question of who they're going to support for president, they're going to vote for Barrack Obama. It's a question of where their time and money is going to go," spokesman T. Neil Sroka said."
Translation: “The public will never elect people at the grass roots level; instead they will continue accepting the psuedo choices provided by the corporations so we can continue to hand complete control over to the corporations while giving the public a pathetic illussion of democracy. BWWWAAAHAHAHAHA!”
We need to pledge NOT to vote for any corporate candidate and go one step farther and create candidates of our own to vote for!
Translation: “The public will never elect people at the grass roots level; instead they will continue accepting the psuedo choices provided by the corporations so we can continue to hand complete control over to the corporations while giving the public a pathetic illussion of democracy. BWWWAAAHAHAHAHA!”
We need to pledge NOT to vote for any corporate candidate and go one step farther and create candidates of our own to vote for!
The President has already shown he doesn't care about petitions and the middle-class lobbying anyway. That became apparent to all of us when he caved on the Warren appointment.
I will say the unthinkable for a Liberal... I wish Obama would lose.
The Democratic Party is not my Party anymore. I am a Liberal. They may advocate for some of the same ideas I do, but they have shown themselves to be centrists.
Just because Libertarians and I agree on drug reforms does not make me a Libertarian.
So the question for Liberals is are we willing to split off for the greater good? Are we going for the doughnut or are we ordering the grilled chicken?
Sure we get a burst of energy by stuffing the junk food down, but it is short lived and we always crave more and more.
Liberals have to come to terms with losing in the short term for gains in the long. No one likes to lose or fall back, but ask any military person, sometimes you got to re-group...
Change does not come from compliance.
I will say the unthinkable for a Liberal... I wish Obama would lose.
The Democratic Party is not my Party anymore. I am a Liberal. They may advocate for some of the same ideas I do, but they have shown themselves to be centrists.
Just because Libertarians and I agree on drug reforms does not make me a Libertarian.
So the question for Liberals is are we willing to split off for the greater good? Are we going for the doughnut or are we ordering the grilled chicken?
Sure we get a burst of energy by stuffing the junk food down, but it is short lived and we always crave more and more.
Liberals have to come to terms with losing in the short term for gains in the long. No one likes to lose or fall back, but ask any military person, sometimes you got to re-group...
Change does not come from compliance.
“Change does not come from compliance.”
Actually, Art, great change can come from compliance…just as great change can come from non-compliance.
And that “great change” in both cases can be very negative change…or very positive change.
As for the former, a very unruly life can be greatly changed in a positive way by compliance with behavior that allows for greater acceptance within a community of workers, such that a person previously not in compliance with reasonable, polite, acceptable behavior can become employable rather than be a shunned pariah simply by “complying” with the demands of society. A decent life can be greatly changed in a negative way by compliance with negative behavior promted by compliance with inappropriate peer pressures.
So the nonsense that change does not come from compliance may seem at first blush to be a decent sound bite…the truth is it doesn’t really have much substance.
And in the context in which you intended this comment, I can add this:
Those of you unwilling to “comply” to the point where you will do severe damage to Obama’s chances of re-election will harvast some very, very great…and negative…change for America.
Give the conservatives (who despise Obama even more than you folk do) a greater reason to claim a mandate to “do their thing”…which you will do with your “Change does not come from compliance” notion, and great change will come which my bet is you will regret with all your being.
Actually, Art, great change can come from compliance…just as great change can come from non-compliance.
And that “great change” in both cases can be very negative change…or very positive change.
As for the former, a very unruly life can be greatly changed in a positive way by compliance with behavior that allows for greater acceptance within a community of workers, such that a person previously not in compliance with reasonable, polite, acceptable behavior can become employable rather than be a shunned pariah simply by “complying” with the demands of society. A decent life can be greatly changed in a negative way by compliance with negative behavior promted by compliance with inappropriate peer pressures.
So the nonsense that change does not come from compliance may seem at first blush to be a decent sound bite…the truth is it doesn’t really have much substance.
And in the context in which you intended this comment, I can add this:
Those of you unwilling to “comply” to the point where you will do severe damage to Obama’s chances of re-election will harvast some very, very great…and negative…change for America.
Give the conservatives (who despise Obama even more than you folk do) a greater reason to claim a mandate to “do their thing”…which you will do with your “Change does not come from compliance” notion, and great change will come which my bet is you will regret with all your being.
I hope You learned something new here, Art:
"Actually, Art, great change can come from compliance…just as great change can come from non-compliance."
The fool who a week ago didn't even know how to spell the president's name right has just issued another vapid pronouncement.
frank's live bait and shot bar is open for business,and yes he's got plenty of worms to sell.
"Actually, Art, great change can come from compliance…just as great change can come from non-compliance."
The fool who a week ago didn't even know how to spell the president's name right has just issued another vapid pronouncement.
frank's live bait and shot bar is open for business,and yes he's got plenty of worms to sell.
I'm gratified this thread is getting so many hits and comments.
Art, I agree with your thinking. Obama's dumping Elizabeth Warren is one more outrage. I liked Warren but at the beginning I thought she was naive about Obama. Warren has integrity and is willing to assert tough love on a situation that needs rectifying. Obama does not want those integrity-types in there but he played Lucy and the football to keep people of his own party hoping and trusting if we wait a bit longer Elizabeth would get in there and start to do her good work. One more blow from Obama. Compliance has worsened things. And if we waste more time then we won't have time to get a viable candidate. We won't have time for the captured Dem party to maybe get uncaptured or to handle the logistics if possible to get a real choice in this horribly rigged game. Melody Beattie says the secret is not in continuing to play a rigged game, it is not playing it at all.
Zacharyd, once again, well-said. I think of that legal term about the "corporate person" now given all the more rights by SCOTUS. The personality profile of a corporate person is one of a "psychopath" ... self-interest is all the psychopath is capable of and will be as ruthless and deadly as possible to fulfill his, her or its wants and needs.
Frank, you think those of us disgusted with Obama are being overly-angry? And that anger is weakness? I see that anger as grounding. It comes from reviewing a horrifying situation. The surreal reality of it and saying ENOUGH.
I think all progressives get they are presently hog-tied to an anti-humane agenda. None of us wants it to get more insanely anti-humane. The stay the course with Obama progressives believe the risk is too great to change the status quo.
Status quo is stark. 1 out of 4 people unemployed. 1 out of 5 kids in America goes to bed hungry. Global wars proliferating for corporate profit, which means innocent people gratuitously killed using our tax dollars for the weapons to do it with. Our children losing their lives or sanity to carry out the agenda of high-functioning sociopaths who are far away and their children from the danger as they reap the monetary profits.
Should we accept this horror because with someone else it might be 2 out of 4 or more unemployed. 2 or more out of 5 kids will go hungry. Or an extra war or two more? I am thinking that will increase with or without Obama. Is he really doing serious things to turn that around? I don't mean talking the talk again, since it is election time and time for Lucy and the football promises from Obama. Time to dust off the "change we can believe in" bottle of snake oil hope. I can't believe any Dem is ready to be Charlie Brown once again. But how can you trust Obama since in campaign mode he will say anything and feels no shame doing so. No accountability later to utter a word on his flipflops. Ending the wars was a promise. Look at him now with the violent US New World Order imperialism. Humanitarian interventions -- hah -- for the sake of corporate interests. He is willing to apply Orwellian hypocritical language same as Bush.
Those of us who want to collectively insist Obama not be the Dem candidate in 2012 or want a viable third party candidate or think he should be full-out impeached believe the status-quo is so anti-humane it must be ended here and now. The risk must be taken to demand we be represented by this government as our constitution arranged.
Shifting to the dimension of relationship psychology, I was remembering a book I read long ago called "Men Who Hate Women And the Women Who Love Them" by Susan Forward. If I recall correctly, Forward asserted that it was the most natural thing in the world for a woman or a man for that matter to fall in love with a sociopath, or psychopath, or pathological narcissist, or flim flammer, whatever. These individuals seduce at the beginning of the relationship. They are not bound by integrity. They tell you everything you want to hear in that early short run. They are too good to be true but they convincingly go the distance convincing the pursued they are the one for them.
Forward goes on and says the test of the pursued's state of mental health (and it is a profound test) is in once recognizing the pursuer is not "that perfect illusory person" and starts presenting evidence to the contrary, the pursued needs to process the evidence (not shove it in the background, minimize it, deny it, rationalize it, or worse blame themselves for the pursued toxic treatment of them) and exit the toxic relationship.
Process the grief of it. You know, the shock and depression, the anger and frustration, the bargaining of wanting to make sure re-negotiations are not possible to get back to that "dreamier" relationship space, but ultimately accept the reality of it. Cut your losses and move on.
When the pursued does not have the ego strength to let go of the pursuer who provided such a rush of support and validation and hope but is in the present invalidating and unsupportive and now is CONFUSING (which from the Latin means "fused with") they cannot so easily cut their losses. They keep on waiting and trying and assuming that the golden shower of affection and empathy they enjoyed will come back. They make excuses for the pursuer that perhaps outside circumstances have temporarily interrupted the warmth and energy or that perhaps something within the pursued repelled the pursuer and the pursued can work on perfecting himself or herself. And the longer the formerly pursued awaits a return to the original orbit of mutual good will and bliss the worse the reality gets, and the more battered the ego of the formerly pursued becomes. Learned helplessness sets in.
Then there is the analogy of the slot machine. If the slot machine (Obama) keeps giving out a few coins of hope, the player keeps on playing. Just enough to stay hooked but no serious payoff.
In people arguing about dumping Obama, no one seems to be coming to a defense of him in his NOT being a war criminal or a corporate-enabling criminal. Arguing that the Repubs would be worse criminals is not a convincing argument to stay the course with Obama. Listen to yourselves. You are using the word evil, even. Lesser of two EVILS. Scott Peck writes a lot about "evil". Evil is live backwards. It is anti-life.
Lesser of two evils is not good enough. It is not the perfect being the enemy of the good. There is no good there.
Thanks for wading through my lengthy comments, those of you who have. :)
Art, I agree with your thinking. Obama's dumping Elizabeth Warren is one more outrage. I liked Warren but at the beginning I thought she was naive about Obama. Warren has integrity and is willing to assert tough love on a situation that needs rectifying. Obama does not want those integrity-types in there but he played Lucy and the football to keep people of his own party hoping and trusting if we wait a bit longer Elizabeth would get in there and start to do her good work. One more blow from Obama. Compliance has worsened things. And if we waste more time then we won't have time to get a viable candidate. We won't have time for the captured Dem party to maybe get uncaptured or to handle the logistics if possible to get a real choice in this horribly rigged game. Melody Beattie says the secret is not in continuing to play a rigged game, it is not playing it at all.
Zacharyd, once again, well-said. I think of that legal term about the "corporate person" now given all the more rights by SCOTUS. The personality profile of a corporate person is one of a "psychopath" ... self-interest is all the psychopath is capable of and will be as ruthless and deadly as possible to fulfill his, her or its wants and needs.
Frank, you think those of us disgusted with Obama are being overly-angry? And that anger is weakness? I see that anger as grounding. It comes from reviewing a horrifying situation. The surreal reality of it and saying ENOUGH.
I think all progressives get they are presently hog-tied to an anti-humane agenda. None of us wants it to get more insanely anti-humane. The stay the course with Obama progressives believe the risk is too great to change the status quo.
Status quo is stark. 1 out of 4 people unemployed. 1 out of 5 kids in America goes to bed hungry. Global wars proliferating for corporate profit, which means innocent people gratuitously killed using our tax dollars for the weapons to do it with. Our children losing their lives or sanity to carry out the agenda of high-functioning sociopaths who are far away and their children from the danger as they reap the monetary profits.
Should we accept this horror because with someone else it might be 2 out of 4 or more unemployed. 2 or more out of 5 kids will go hungry. Or an extra war or two more? I am thinking that will increase with or without Obama. Is he really doing serious things to turn that around? I don't mean talking the talk again, since it is election time and time for Lucy and the football promises from Obama. Time to dust off the "change we can believe in" bottle of snake oil hope. I can't believe any Dem is ready to be Charlie Brown once again. But how can you trust Obama since in campaign mode he will say anything and feels no shame doing so. No accountability later to utter a word on his flipflops. Ending the wars was a promise. Look at him now with the violent US New World Order imperialism. Humanitarian interventions -- hah -- for the sake of corporate interests. He is willing to apply Orwellian hypocritical language same as Bush.
Those of us who want to collectively insist Obama not be the Dem candidate in 2012 or want a viable third party candidate or think he should be full-out impeached believe the status-quo is so anti-humane it must be ended here and now. The risk must be taken to demand we be represented by this government as our constitution arranged.
Shifting to the dimension of relationship psychology, I was remembering a book I read long ago called "Men Who Hate Women And the Women Who Love Them" by Susan Forward. If I recall correctly, Forward asserted that it was the most natural thing in the world for a woman or a man for that matter to fall in love with a sociopath, or psychopath, or pathological narcissist, or flim flammer, whatever. These individuals seduce at the beginning of the relationship. They are not bound by integrity. They tell you everything you want to hear in that early short run. They are too good to be true but they convincingly go the distance convincing the pursued they are the one for them.
Forward goes on and says the test of the pursued's state of mental health (and it is a profound test) is in once recognizing the pursuer is not "that perfect illusory person" and starts presenting evidence to the contrary, the pursued needs to process the evidence (not shove it in the background, minimize it, deny it, rationalize it, or worse blame themselves for the pursued toxic treatment of them) and exit the toxic relationship.
Process the grief of it. You know, the shock and depression, the anger and frustration, the bargaining of wanting to make sure re-negotiations are not possible to get back to that "dreamier" relationship space, but ultimately accept the reality of it. Cut your losses and move on.
When the pursued does not have the ego strength to let go of the pursuer who provided such a rush of support and validation and hope but is in the present invalidating and unsupportive and now is CONFUSING (which from the Latin means "fused with") they cannot so easily cut their losses. They keep on waiting and trying and assuming that the golden shower of affection and empathy they enjoyed will come back. They make excuses for the pursuer that perhaps outside circumstances have temporarily interrupted the warmth and energy or that perhaps something within the pursued repelled the pursuer and the pursued can work on perfecting himself or herself. And the longer the formerly pursued awaits a return to the original orbit of mutual good will and bliss the worse the reality gets, and the more battered the ego of the formerly pursued becomes. Learned helplessness sets in.
Then there is the analogy of the slot machine. If the slot machine (Obama) keeps giving out a few coins of hope, the player keeps on playing. Just enough to stay hooked but no serious payoff.
In people arguing about dumping Obama, no one seems to be coming to a defense of him in his NOT being a war criminal or a corporate-enabling criminal. Arguing that the Repubs would be worse criminals is not a convincing argument to stay the course with Obama. Listen to yourselves. You are using the word evil, even. Lesser of two EVILS. Scott Peck writes a lot about "evil". Evil is live backwards. It is anti-life.
Lesser of two evils is not good enough. It is not the perfect being the enemy of the good. There is no good there.
Thanks for wading through my lengthy comments, those of you who have. :)
Libby, wonderful writing. I am incomplete agreement with you responses and the final point you make about choosing the lesser of two evils. It reminds me of someone (Obama apologists) trying to argue a negative. They are too scared stepping into the light, so they stay in the dark room they are familiar with.
This fear of the unknown is all too common in our species.
As for Frank's glib dismissal of my phrase about "Change not coming from compliance", he makes vague assertions that change can and does happen.
I am willing to listen to any factual counter-points. Please name the changes in Governments, their policies, civil rights, Labour rights, etc that have occurred because of public compliance with the status quo.
Whether we agree or not about the changes being beneficial is a different point. And peaceful boycott is NOT compliance, it is a form of protest.
Continuing to hand over votes to the Democrats will only free them to chase the middle. If you are a moderate, then great for your team. I am a Liberal. And I may be willing to compromise on some points, but the President has given too much.
Democrat supporters can always rationalize the broken promises afterwards. I challenge all of them to name "The bridge too far" before they will acknowledge the Democrats are not the party for Liberals?
This fear of the unknown is all too common in our species.
As for Frank's glib dismissal of my phrase about "Change not coming from compliance", he makes vague assertions that change can and does happen.
I am willing to listen to any factual counter-points. Please name the changes in Governments, their policies, civil rights, Labour rights, etc that have occurred because of public compliance with the status quo.
Whether we agree or not about the changes being beneficial is a different point. And peaceful boycott is NOT compliance, it is a form of protest.
Continuing to hand over votes to the Democrats will only free them to chase the middle. If you are a moderate, then great for your team. I am a Liberal. And I may be willing to compromise on some points, but the President has given too much.
Democrat supporters can always rationalize the broken promises afterwards. I challenge all of them to name "The bridge too far" before they will acknowledge the Democrats are not the party for Liberals?
Libby, thank you for your lengthy response. I did read it all. I continue to appreciate your position…I simply want to present alternative perspectives…especially since so many people here in OS are favorable to your position and relatively few are favorable to the position I take. Essentially we have many speaking against Obama; just a few speaking for him…that is certainly not being unfair to the anti-Obama faction.
One comment I would like to address is, “You are using the word evil, even. Lesser of two EVILS. Scott Peck writes a lot about "evil". Evil is live backwards. It is anti-life.
Lesser of two evils is not good enough. It is not the perfect being the enemy of the good. There is no good there.”
Libby, the phrase “Lesser of two evils” is a commonly used phrase to suggest situations where a choice will be made between two things…persons or philosophies…both of which are objectionable from various perspectives. In politics, it almost means between two politicians or political outcomes…both of which have many negatives in the choice.
If you choose to think that the word “evil” denotes more than the often used phrase really means…I cannot argue with you. I am using it, however, the way anyone would who is arguing a point of “two different things both with possible negative connotations…and a choice has to be made.”
You certainly can go the third party route…but we’ve already seen where Ralph Nader left Al Gore. We got George W. Bush. If you honestly think a George W. Bush would be preferable to Obama…go with it. I support your right to think that way.
I, decidedly, do not feel that way…and that is the reason I am responding in these many, many threads devoted to talking about how horrible Obama has been for America.
Same goes with Art. Vote as you see fit…and post as you see fit.
That is what I am doing.
One comment I would like to address is, “You are using the word evil, even. Lesser of two EVILS. Scott Peck writes a lot about "evil". Evil is live backwards. It is anti-life.
Lesser of two evils is not good enough. It is not the perfect being the enemy of the good. There is no good there.”
Libby, the phrase “Lesser of two evils” is a commonly used phrase to suggest situations where a choice will be made between two things…persons or philosophies…both of which are objectionable from various perspectives. In politics, it almost means between two politicians or political outcomes…both of which have many negatives in the choice.
If you choose to think that the word “evil” denotes more than the often used phrase really means…I cannot argue with you. I am using it, however, the way anyone would who is arguing a point of “two different things both with possible negative connotations…and a choice has to be made.”
You certainly can go the third party route…but we’ve already seen where Ralph Nader left Al Gore. We got George W. Bush. If you honestly think a George W. Bush would be preferable to Obama…go with it. I support your right to think that way.
I, decidedly, do not feel that way…and that is the reason I am responding in these many, many threads devoted to talking about how horrible Obama has been for America.
Same goes with Art. Vote as you see fit…and post as you see fit.
That is what I am doing.
Frank Apisa says: "Vote as you see fit...and post as you see fit.
That is what I am doing."
And there you have it. Frank Apisa is a right-of-center corporatist. That is who he supports (Obama), so that is what he is.
That is what I am doing."
And there you have it. Frank Apisa is a right-of-center corporatist. That is who he supports (Obama), so that is what he is.
Frank Apisa says: "Vote as you see fit...and post as you see fit.
That is what I am doing."
And there you have it. Frank Apisa is a right-of-center corporatist. That is who he supports (Obama), so that is what he is.
Huh???? Are you sure you are from New Jersey?
That is what I am doing."
And there you have it. Frank Apisa is a right-of-center corporatist. That is who he supports (Obama), so that is what he is.
Huh???? Are you sure you are from New Jersey?
A short one here...
So many times the two Party system the majority of Americans are loathe to replace has it's backers blaming the independents closest in ideology for losing elections... Perot, Gore... whomever.
Really? Not the Candidate?
Do I have to go into detail on the flaws of this "Blame the critics" attitude?
If nothing else, the 2006 mid-terms; 2008 Presidential and Congressional; and finally 2010 mid-terms again show how huge majorities regardless of third Parties can sweep in.
And how easy it is to conveniently brush aside the ramifications of the relatively small Tea Party. Sure they have funding from people like the Kochs, but you can have a million spears, what good does it do if you don't have the foot soldiers to carry them into town-hall meetings, make phone calls, write letters etc.
But the rationalizations will come. They always do. The Candidate is never given the lion's share of the blame.
So many times the two Party system the majority of Americans are loathe to replace has it's backers blaming the independents closest in ideology for losing elections... Perot, Gore... whomever.
Really? Not the Candidate?
Do I have to go into detail on the flaws of this "Blame the critics" attitude?
If nothing else, the 2006 mid-terms; 2008 Presidential and Congressional; and finally 2010 mid-terms again show how huge majorities regardless of third Parties can sweep in.
And how easy it is to conveniently brush aside the ramifications of the relatively small Tea Party. Sure they have funding from people like the Kochs, but you can have a million spears, what good does it do if you don't have the foot soldiers to carry them into town-hall meetings, make phone calls, write letters etc.
But the rationalizations will come. They always do. The Candidate is never given the lion's share of the blame.
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